Yale combination safe

capt midnite · 2022-04-06T20:02:07+00:00

Hi everyone been a while since i have posted on here . i purchased this yale combination safe today it is locked i just wofndered if anyone can give me any information on it , age etc if its a 3 or 4 wheel lock ? im in the uk if that makes a difference , thanks julian

capt midnite

David Hovey wrote
Can someone show me a fictional 4 wheel OC9 lock?

My best guess without being able to touch, listen, and manipulate the dial would be Yale 024.
I say this because of the stout hinges and construction.

OC locks were populated on record safes.

DH

Hi David thanks for your reply , again very interesting, im guessing a oc9 as i believe it to be 4 wheel , im only guessing here as im no expert i have looked at the pdf national locksmith guide to manipulation, and that shows a 4 wheel , these locks are not common in England so not easy to get advice , i recently purchased a oc5 from the USA and its not 0c5 much different , can you please give me any info on the yale 024 / dialing pattern etc. thanks again ju

[unknown]

David Hovey

The reason I say fictional, Yale OC9 is a 3 wheel lock. The only Yale 4 wheel standard foot print lock that comes to mind was the B40. Additionally the primary use of the OC series was for record’s safes, (trying to compete with the S&G 6700 series standard foot print lock). If indeed your lock is 4 wheel then it would count out the OC series.

Information needed to proceed; does the lock have a gear driven fence, is it a 3 or 4 wheel, what is the diameter of the dial and ring? Even with this info it’s still an educated guess as to what lock it utilizes until the door swings.

Cepasaccus

Does the B40 have a clicking mechanism on the drive cam?

capt midnite

David Hovey wrote
The reason I say fictional, Yale OC9 is a 3 wheel lock. The only Yale 4 wheel standard foot print lock that comes to mind was the B40. Additionally the primary use of the OC series was for record’s safes, (trying to compete with the S&G 6700 series standard foot print lock). If indeed your lock is 4 wheel then it would count out the OC series.

Information needed to proceed; does the lock have a gear driven fence, is it a 3 or 4 wheel, what is the diameter of the dial and ring? Even with this info it’s still an educated guess as to what lock it utilizes until the door swings.

DH

morning David , im guessing yes it does have a gear driven fence , i feel im picking up 4 wheels by turning the dial left a/cw 5-6 times stopping at 50 then right c/w 5 times can just feel a slight heavier pull on the dial and a quite click as it picks up a wheel ,and counting 4 wheels , the dial is 3 inches (7.8cm) the ring is 4 inches (10cm)

[unknown]

capt midnite

Cepasaccus wrote
Does the B40 have a clicking mechanism on the drive cam?

HI thanks for messaging if i turn the dial left a/cw e is nothing consistent odd clunk here and there , if i turn the dial right i hear and feel something at 05 which im guessing is the contact point ?

[unknown]

Cepasaccus

Then I don’t believe it is this kind of Yale Group 1 lock.

capt midnite

Cepasaccus wrote
Then I don’t believe it is this kind of Yale Group 1 lock.

Hi, its defiantly a 4 wheel fence friction lock but what sort i dont know

[unknown]

Cepasaccus

Well, there is just one way to find out. You need to get it open.

A Yale 028 is a 4-wheel and right-to-stop lock and should have a suitable price for this kind of container, but it is a big one.

5 sounds good for a contact point. When you graph a friction fence lock there can be situations where the contact point doesn’t shift at all, but the only difference is how solid the contact point feels. To use this information it is not important to measure by some sort of mechanical device. It is fine to use rough estimates like “it is here stronger than there”, “in this area is the strongest contact point” or “low/medium/high”.

And I think I have already seen somewhere a handle like this, but I can’t find it again. Maybe it is related to a Jeweler’s Chest.

capt midnite

Cepasaccus wrote
Well, there is just one way to find out. You need to get it open.

A Yale 028 is a 4-wheel and right-to-stop lock and should have a suitable price for this kind of container, but it is a big one.

5 sounds good for a contact point. When you graph a friction fence lock there can be situations where the contact point doesn’t shift at all, but the only difference is how solid the contact point feels. To use this information it is not important to measure by some sort of mechanical device. It is fine to use rough estimates like “it is here stronger than there”, “in this area is the strongest contact point” or “low/medium/high”.

And I think I have already seen somewhere a handle like this, but I can’t find it again. Maybe it is related to a Jeweler’s Chest.

Thank you again for taking time to explain , it would be a dream to open it but im a long way of manipulation for this type of lock , again interesting you say right to stop i have treated this lock first as a spring loaded, then a oc5 now i think oc9 so my dialing L-R-L-R Left to stop , also interesting you say a jewelers chest as i have been told it is a safe within a safe , the only one i have seen similar which was opened by firefighters in the USA , they smashed it to bits ,,, i cant find the story at the moment ,,,

[unknown]

Cepasaccus

The Jeweler’s Chest is a burglary safe inside a fire safe. They usually have a pressure bar to squeeze the door into the frame to make it secure against liquid explosives.

When you have the contact point at 5 with a right turn, then the final turn is a right turn. The dialing sequence is then R-L-R-L and R to stop. Just treat it as a friction fence lock and don’t care about the model.

capt midnite

Cepasaccus wrote
The Jeweler’s Chest is a burglary safe inside a fire safe. They usually have a pressure bar to squeeze the door into the frame to make it secure against liquid explosives.

When you have the contact point at 5 with a right turn, then the final turn is a right turn. The dialing sequence is then R-L-R-L and R to stop. Just treat it as a friction fence lock and don’t care about the model.

Hi Cepasaccuss thanks for the information im trying to learn the manipulation of this lock not easy but a steady task , can i ask how you would find the contact point? as i would just like to make sure im on the right path , thanks ju

[unknown]

Cepasaccus

On a friction fence lock is a bump in only one direction.

capt midnite

Cepasaccus wrote
On a friction fence lock is a bump in only one direction.

ok thanks definitely to the right on this lock can feel a bump at 5 and at 75 which could be a gate

[unknown]

mercury

capt midnite wrote
ok thanks definitely to the right on this lock can feel a bump at 5 and at 75 which could be a gate

The bump you feel at 5 is likely to be your contact point. It should not be detectable when dialling left.

[unknown]

capt midnite

mercury wrote
The bump you feel at 5 is likely to be your contact point. It should not be detectable when dialling left.

no thats correct my main problem has been identifying the lock itself as have been told a few different things , so i can get the dialing sequence correct , thanks for your reply

[unknown]

Cepasaccus

If in doubt the lock tells you how it wants to be opened.

If you feel the bump at 5 on a right turn, than the final opening turn is right. Then the last wheel is set left, the wheel before right and so on. How to count is the same as in a modern combination lock like a 6730. I think it is best to watch a yt video that demonstrates it. 3-wheel counting is 4, 3, 2. 4-wheel counting is 5, 4, 3, 2. The number of wheels can be felt by looking for pickup, i.e. turn all to one direction and then turn back by one, two, three, four turns and feel if a wheel is added. If this is not possible then assume a 4-wheeler.

capt midnite

Cepasaccus wrote
If in doubt the lock tells you how it wants to be opened.

If you feel the bump at 5 on a right turn, than the final opening turn is right. Then the last wheel is set left, the wheel before right and so on. How to count is the same as in a modern combination lock like a 6730. I think it is best to watch a yt video that demonstrates it. 3-wheel counting is 4, 3, 2. 4-wheel counting is 5, 4, 3, 2. The number of wheels can be felt by looking for pickup, i.e. turn all to one direction and then turn back by one, two, three, four turns and feel if a wheel is added. If this is not possible then assume a 4-wheeler.

Hi Cepasaccus thanks for your reply you have been very helpful on this thread , im certain its a 4wheeler , just watching some vids now hopefully get a good result ,

[unknown]

capt midnite

Thanks everyone for your advice on my thread about the yale safe , i managed to open it but unfortunatly not by manipulation, but found some holes in the back that had been plugged with lead so i drilled them out and removed the back of the lock ,which in turn opened the door , very happy with the lock its a 4 wheel yale , the safe contained a few old books the oldest being 1769 , which i will give to museum in the town it has information on , thanks again all,,, for the advice

Cepasaccus

Thanks for coming back to us. Opening a safe through already existing holes is also a very good method. I am not an expert on these chests, but maybe these holes were there to mount it in a bigger fire safe. And nice, that it was one of the rare examples of safes with content.

capt midnite

yes i agree i think it was bolted down , thanks again for your help , topman 👍

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