Very antique key and lock related

VtCollects · 2012-04-29T00:21:17+00:00

I was wondering why there isn’t an antique key cutter (key machine) section, or is it alright to post those pictures and questions in the Antique Key area? I have a Keil New York No. 3 - 3 1\2 key machine that is a work of machinist’s art and it is from the early 20th century. There aren’t many pictures of the real thing on the Internet as far as I can tell. There is one place where you can find a picture that came from the manual, more than likely, to be able to identify the machine you have, but sometimes those aren’t definitive as I have seen one machine that stumped me. I know that you probably have to be a locksmith in some locales to even own these old machines, but they are worth collecting and sometimes they can be had dirt cheap compared to the locks that these machines made (make) keys for. Let’s keep the old ways alive, and show those pictures.

Pschiffe

goldpro wrote
Thanks for that info Pete. Here’s a few pics of another old Ilco code machine I’m going to try to rig up with dial indicators and the sloting cutter to do flat steel keys by measurements from the old locks we get coming in to have keys fitted. We have lots of dials and vise jaw inserts for this one. I think some of the inserts fit the minute machine also as the jaws seem to be similar. The whole vise/dial carriage tilts down so you can clamp the key easier as shown in the pic. I think machines like this were popular before the HPC came along. I think we have several cutters for it that also can be used on a HPC blitz. On the original wood base with tag. Another classic I’d like to see working again with some custom modifications. Tom

That is is 2178U Universal Code Key Cutting Machine first introduced in 1927 and in continuous production until it was replaced by the Universal II, a card-type machine; a few years ago. Like many Ilco machines of that era, it featured straight-in feed which provided a perpendicular cut at the root of the key as opposed to the pivoting mechanism found on most contemporary duplicators. The key rest inserts were designed to accurately accommodate various types of blanks although those used on the Minute are different from the Universal as the former hold two keys for duplicating while the later holds but one for code cutting. Two of the key rests, 26A for standard keys and 26C for wide cylinder keys are still stocked at the Ilco factory in Rocky Mount, NC. They also still have some depth and space disc sets and set up keys on close-out subject to limited availability.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

Zoso1967

I stumbled upon one of these ILCO 179IM a couple weeks ago. I wondered if anyone is interested in pictures. after digging through 20+ boxes I managed to find the manual that came with it, along with the aluminum spacers . I’ll put pictures however it’s Christmas. I would also like to Know if anyone has the size of these in particular the one that supports Best I think it ends with BX. Is it ok to post the manual? Thanks. It took me some time to find this site. Excellent Info.

nathanbonstein

27bx,pic’s would be nice

Zoso1967

I don"t have pictures of 27BX I’ll post some photos of the one’s I found there was an extra carriage with clamps the manual saying the reversing block is #26 the ones i found are 2@ 22B, 23CH,33ad, and 34BX. I’ve only a description of 27BX–For holding and gauging “Best” type key blanks (such as No. 1114D, etc.) When I return Home I’ll post photos. Perhaps 26DEC15.
Thank You.

nathanbonstein

i only have the 27bx listed under extra equipment. on the parts sheet i do not see 27bx

Zoso1967

nathanbonstein wrote
i only have the 27bx listed under extra equipment. on the parts sheet i do not see 27bx

By looking around a bit more the model i have is the earlier not the L. If anyone has one and could provide Measurements or photos I’d give it a go on my milling machine.

[unknown]

nathanbonstein

mine just says minute on the tag.no ser # i have to finish putting a motor on it and then seeing what else i need for it. everything turns and rotates and slides freely

Zoso1967

nathanbonstein wrote
mine just says minute on the tag.no ser # i have to finish putting a motor on it and then seeing what else i need for it. everything turns and rotates and slides freely[ATTACH=CONFIG]14810[/ATTACH]

tthis was some of the things I aquired sorry about size of photo I"ll send more totomorrow Thanks

[unknown]

jeffmoss26

Looks like quite a haul!!

Pschiffe

Zoso1967 wrote
By looking around a bit more the model i have is the earlier not the L. If anyone has one and could provide Measurements or photos I’d give it a go on my milling machine.

Instructions for the “early” 179IM shows the following on pg. 7:
EXTRA EQUIPMENT
SPECIAL BLOCKS FOR ILCO KEY DUPLICATING MACHINES

For holding properly certain types of cylinder keys in vise, it is necessary
to insert special blocking. Ilco special blocks are designed especially for
Ilco key machines, and may be purchased as extra equipment. The following
blocks are available:

                                                        33AD - For holding offset keys used on 1933 and 1934
                                                                   Chrysler line cars (such as key blank No. 1122ZP
                                                                   etc.)
                                                        34BX - For holding B & S double sided keys (such as No.
                                                                   1198C etc.)
                                                        22B   - For holding key blanks used for Hurd Tire Lock
                                                                   in 1934 Chevrolet (key blank No. 1125L).
                                                        22CH - For holding and gauging Chicago keys (such as No.
                                                                   1041D etc.).
                                                        27BX - For holding and gauging "Best" type key blanks
                                                                   (such as No. 1114 etc.).
                                                        38B   - For holding and gauging Ilco No. 1198CN key 
                                                                   blanks, and other types of corrugated key blanks.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

nathanbonstein

pete,can these be ordered straight from n.c.?

Tom Gordon

Brian Morland wrote
Not exactly very old, vintage rather than antique, but thought it might be of interest. It must have been very boring cutting keys with this!!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5860[/ATTACH]

interesting Xmas cards that they had back then…

[unknown]

Pschiffe

nathanbonstein wrote
pete,can these be ordered straight from n.c.?

Most are obsolete, however the Ilco Suggested Dealer (price list), Key Blanks, Key Assortments, Key Machines, January 13, 2014 shows stock of “27B (129089) Key Rest for Best Type Keys” @ $31.57 ea. sugg. dlr. which I presume to be the same thing. Lead time is “C” which means may be in stock, should this item be out of stock, extended lead time may occur. And no, they won’t sell direct, must be purchased from an Ilco distributor. I have a 27BX and will try to post an image later.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

Pschiffe

Here is an image scanned from a 1970s supplier catalog listing key rests and blocks used on early Ilco key machines. Click on thumbnail to view full size. Note that they are different for machines manufactured before and after June 63 and were also used on the Improved American No. 175IA and Improved Duplex No. 177ID as well as the Improved Minute No. 179IM, which all had the same type of cylinder key carriage. I don’t know what production change was made in June 63 but I believe the early Improved Minute was replaced by the Model L around 1956.

Pete Schifferli

Zoso1967

Pschiffe wrote
Here is an image scanned from a 1970s supplier catalog listing key rests and blocks used on early Ilco key machines. Click on thumbnail to view full size. Note that they are different for machines manufactured before and after June 63 and were also used on the Improved American No. 175IA and Improved Duplex No. 177ID as well as the Improved Minute No. 179IM, which all had the same type of cylinder key carriage. I don’t know what production change was made in June 63 but I believe the early Improved Minute was replaced by the Model L around 1956.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14823[/ATTACH]

Pete Schifferli

Thank You great Information. Here are the blocks I found.And info from ILCO Manual.

[unknown]

Zoso1967

Here are some blocks and extra carriage .There is another that came with the deal.

jeffmoss26

Beautiful!

Zoso1967

Zoso1967 wrote
Here are some blocks and extra carriage .There is another that came with the deal.

The others

[unknown]

nathanbonstein

thank you pete,i use 3-4 suppliers for safe and lock parts ,your info is alway the best,thanks again

Pschiffe

See thumbnail for image of my Ilco 27BX key rest for Best-type interchangeable core keys, click to enlarge. These keys are gauged from the tip, not the shoulder. Note the small protrusions upon which the “tip” location that is behind the actual tip of the key rests.

The illustration in the circle below further illustrates the positioning of the “tip” cut that is behind the actual tip on Best-type keys.

Pete Schifferli

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