2buy1 I’m trying to find out about this type of lock mechanism. I had one installed in Marvin Safe years ago. This is the flat key that is discretely inserted and then the knob will open the safe. Any links or information regarding this would be greatly appreciated. Jim
2buy1 Dean, I actually still have the original know and it says “Marvin’s Patent Dec. 1 1863” Thanks, Jim
Dean Nickel The way that is worded it is a British Patent. I don’t know how we would get a patent that old. I hope that Tom or someone that knows about how to search for British Patents will reply.
Billy B Edwards Jr. CML Halflock wroteThe way that is worded it is a British Patent. I don’t know how we would get a patent that old. I hope that Tom or someone that knows about how to search for British Patents will reply. It could be British or American. The US patent 40947 was issued on Dec. 15, 1863 and one issued should be with a couple of hundred before that as there were only around 4,000 patents total that year. British patents were issued by year and numbered from number 1 at the beginning of each year. Makes it harder to search for them if you have a number because you also need the year. HTH, BBE. [unknown]
2buy1 Thanks Dean & BBE. I really curious if anyone has one of these Krenkle lock safes and to see other images. The only one I’ve ever found that is close to the one I had is on Safes about ¾ of the way down the page, labeled “Marvin & Co. Valentine & Butler. Alum Patent. Mar. 27, 1855”
wylk I did find two Walter K. Marvin US patents on that date. 40,799 relating to corrosion resistance in safes, and 40,800 relating to fire-resisting fillers for safes.
Billy B Edwards Jr. CML 2buy1 wroteThanks Dean & BBE. I really curious if anyone has one of these Krenkle lock safes and to see other images. The only one I’ve ever found that is close to the one I had is on Safes about ¾ of the way down the page, labeled “Marvin & Co. Valentine & Butler. Alum Patent. Mar. 27, 1855” The only lock/safe related patent issued on that date was 12,594 and it was for fireproofing a safe. BBE. [unknown]
Doug MacQueen Marvin used a few different keylocks on his early stuff. Try checking out US patent No .14,616 April 8,1856 William Maurer. This is one of the locks Krenkel used. It has a knob and small slightly curved flat key.
2buy1 Doug, Yes that is quite close to the lock I remember. Sorry for my ignorance but can one of you guys explain to me what the word Krenkel is referring to? Is it the lock mechanism, lock manufacturer, safe manufacturer, key design, etc?
Doug MacQueen Krenkel was a New York City safe company and I don’t know the connection if any with the Marvin Safe Co. also from NYC. Doug
2buy1 Doug MacQueen wroteKrenkel was a New York City safe company and I don’t know the connection if any with the Marvin Safe Co. also from NYC. Doug Thanks Doug have a great holiday season. Jim [unknown]
wylk Spotty information about Krenkel exists in Google Books if you search for a first name of Kasimir or Kasimer or Casimer or Casimir, and a last name of Krenkel (or in one case Kreukel, and possible Krenkle though I didn’t try it). Apparently he invented a folding bedstead around 1871 as was in that business in 1861. He was a board member of the Germania Bank around 1869 and in the safe business in 1872. An 1875 lock and key are discussed in Lure of the Lock, pages 109 and 112. He may have died in 1884.
wylk Does anybody know if Krenkel actually manufactured safes, or did he purchase them from some other manufacturer? I suppose the same question could be asked about the locks.
Doug MacQueen Krenkel did make their own safes, both fire and burglary models and it appears their locks as well. His first name did start with a K so the Kasimer you found does sound like the same man. Doug
2buy1 So if Krenkel was a safe manufacturer then what’s the techincal name for the locking mechanism/type that inserts a flat key (in a hidden space) and only the knob is turned to open the safe? Thanks again, Jim
Doug MacQueen I don’t believe I have ever heard of a name for a lock which has a separate bolt handle but maybe as I type this something will come to mind. There were a couple different factors that drove lock makers to design locks of this type. The first that comes to mind was the desire for smaller keys that were easier to carry. Look at the Delano safe key I recently made. It was over 5″ long and pretty hefty. Keys that drove the boltwork of a safe had to be bigger than keys that only moved or set the tumblers . In some locks with a separate lock bolt handle, the key moves the tumblers into position where in others it is the bolt handle that moves or lifts the tumblers allowing the key to then be inserted. Another factor was that the keys could be made smaller reducing the amount of balack powder that could be inserted into the lock. And then there is pick resistance. The first lock lock that comes to mind is the Herring “Grasshopper” lock of William Hall. Here the knob does the job of setting the levers as it forces the key inward and also blocks access to the levers when it is turned far enough to bring pressure on the lock bolt. Doug
2buy1 Doug, Thanks for the feedback. The one I’m interested in is the type that requires tension on the knob in order to insert the key. Please see attached images of 2 different locks I have. I keep looking for an intacted safe and have yet to find one. I was curious what the technical name for the lock would be to perform more searching. Any help anyone has would be appreciated. Jim
