Old lock (1549.) evaluation

Franco

Hi collectors.

Please I need evaluation of this old lock in att. which has engraved words in latin or some similar language and year 1549.

Please give me advice is this lock or something else and how much could it be worth ?

I supposue it is very rare and expensive since I have not found it via web nowhere and since it is almosut 500 years old.

Please comment.

Thank you,

Franco

Dean Nickel

Two things so we might be able to help you.
One: Can you type in what is on the shackle as we can’t read it from the pictures.
Two: Can you get measurements of the size and thickness of the lock.

oldbiscuit

Franco, Also was there a key with the lock? Can you provide more pictures (side view,back view), and a picture of the key hole ? Interesting lock none the less. 🙁nerd):

Franco

Thank you Halflock and Old biscuit. I have not found key for the lock, but I would have to look better in the basement.
I will measure it exactly and try to write down letters written on the shackle. I will also make better photos from sides you wrote and of the key hole in order to help you to help me 🙂-:
Lock is in the family for longer period and i was wondering about its origin, worth etc.
It is very heavy (cca 6-7 kg).Have you ever seen something like this before?

Thanks and regards from Croatia

Franco

Hi Halflock, Oldbiscuit and other collectors,

As far as I could decode, on the shackle it is written:

1st side: VBRIVM : DOMINI : MANIT : INATANVM
2nd side: NIBIL : VN… : MA : CT : III : TA : 1549

This may not be the exact letters since it is pretty hard to recognize letters but this is it in general. Thickness of the lock is cca 10 cm. Height 35 cm, width 20 cm
In att I enclose more photos I have (back vew, closer view). I have not done extra photos but I will as soon as i can.

What do you think experts ? 🙁nerd):

It is heavy cca 6-7 kg as I wrote.

Could you give me some general opinion based on these facts I gave you about how rare it is, how much it is worth aproximately etc. ?

Thank you,

Franco

Anybody knows? :=(:

Dean Nickel

Give it a bit of time. Some don’t login for weeks.

oldbiscuit

Franco, I tried looking up translations for what is stamped on the shackle to no avail. I believe it is probably an old english lock, the date stamp may or may not be of any significance ( it may not be the true date rather a lock number). However there is an article in this months Lock Collector News by Bob Dix (president of the American Lock Collectors Assn) about old world locks and some of the padlocks bear some of the same traits as yours. Is there any way you could do a chalk rub on the letters to get a better reading on them? Also it would still help if you could provide side,back and keyhole pics of the lock. In the mean time I’ll continue to research what I can on what you’ve provided so far,please be patient. Mark

Franco

Hi oldbiscuit and lock guru. I have found translation of words written on shackle via old good google 🙁mm):

So, words on the 1st side of the shackle : VBRIVM : DOMINI : MANIT : INATANVM

exactly mean:

VERBUM DOMINI MANET IN AETERNUM.

English translation is:

The Word of the Lord Endures Forever.

Here is the text I found on web page: New Reformation Press » Symbols Used Here At NRP

Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum is the motto of the Lutheran Reformation, a confident expression of the enduring power and authority of God’s Word. The motto is based on 1 Peter 1:24-25. It first appeared in the court of Frederick the Wise in 1522. He had it sewn onto the right sleeve of the court’s official clothing, which was worn by prince and servant alike. It was used by Frederick’s successors, his brother John the Steadfast, and his nephew John Frederick the Magnanimous. It became the official motto of the Smalcaldic League and was used on flags, banners, swords, and uniforms as a symbol of the unity of the Lutheran laity who struggled to defend their beliefs, communities, families and lives against those who were intent on destroying them.
(Description from Book of Concord, Reader’s Edition – Copyright © 2005 Concordia Publishing House)

As you can see, this motto first appeared in the court of Frederick the Wise in 1522. That means that year 1549. is pretty certainly not lock number but production date.
The fact it says this motto was used on flags, banners, swords, … as symbol of the unity of the Lutheran laity also indicates that it was most probably used on this shackle of my lock. 🙁clap):
Am I right ?
Now when I found the translations which may reveal the history of the lock what do you think experts ? How rare could it be, how worth and do you maybe have some similar locks form the age of Lutheran reformation ?

Thank you very much in advance. Sorry for being unpattient but seems we are closer to the solution of history of padlock, isn’t that true ? 🙁clap):

Franco

Tom Gordon

I am afraid that it more likely refers to The Book of Common Prayer and an act of parliament on January 21, 1549, which ordered the book to come into general compulsory use not later than Whitsunday (June 9).
Amen

Franco

Tom Gordon wrote
I am afraid that it more likely refers to The Book of Common Prayer and an act of parliament on January 21, 1549, which ordered the book to come into general compulsory use not later than Whitsunday (June 9).
Amen

Thanks Tom,

Hm, I am not sure but it could be…Could you be more precise about padlock then ? When, where, how rare etc ? What do you think ?

Thank you Tom in advance,

Franco

[unknown]

Tom Gordon

The year was a very important one for some religious folk (and may still be so).
Stamping religious mottos on padlocks would infer that religion was important to them.
I cannot date or value the padlock as it is outside my sphere of knowledge but I doubt that the numbers are a date stamp.

Franco

Tom Gordon wrote
The year was a very important one for some religious folk (and may still be so).
Stamping religious mottos on padlocks would infer that religion was important to them.
I cannot date or value the padlock as it is outside my sphere of knowledge but I doubt that the numbers are a date stamp.

It seems to me that padlock has few lutheras roses on itself what could also indicate that it was used as lock in church, castle…?

What could these letters mean since they are written on the oppsoite side of shackle ? :

NIBIL : VN… : MA : CT : III : TA : 1549

Thanks Tom !

[unknown]

Dean Nickel

In collecting you find that the story of the lock and the road getting to that story is more than the lock. Keep going. I would find out more about the church and any reference to blacksmiths or locksmiths for the church. It might be as Tom said, just a reference to a point in time that was important. The other markings maybe about the lock maker.

Franco

Halflock wrote
In collecting you find that the story of the lock and the road getting to that story is more than the lock. Keep going. I would find out more about the church and any reference to blacksmiths or locksmiths for the church. It might be as Tom said, just a reference to a point in time that was important. The other markings maybe about the lock maker.

Thank You Halflock for explanation. I appreciate help of You, Tom, Oldbiscuit and others collectors. I can see that this disccussion is going on with many views from members of this forum what I like very much 🙁mm): Maybe I could be moderator😃:. Just kidding, i do not have experience regarding locks.

I understand how interesting is finding out infos about object of collecting. I would have few more questions for You and anybody who knows or thinks that knows:

Is it possible that you suggest person that is expert with this kind of lock (church lock, lutheran locks, VDMA motto…, 16th century locks etc?
According to your knowledge, experience on antique locks fairs etc. and on the base of infos I gave on this forum could you please write in rough how worth could this lock be ? Is it in range from 100 eur-200 eur, 500-1000 eur, 1000 - 10 000 eur or more ?

Thank you all in advance

Franco

[unknown]

Dean Nickel

The first point, expert on this type of lock. I can’t name one that is still alive, this isn’t to say there isn’t one, I just don’t know that person. You might try the Vatican in Rome and see if they have a lock antique section. Being this has a posiable connection to a church. Or see if you can find an expert on that time in that religion mentioned.

As for the value. I believe that you will not find that buyers and what it is valued at will meet UNLESS you can find the full story on this lock. It isn’t how rare the lock is or how much it is valued the lock is that makes a difference. It is the STORY about the lock that sells it. This has been proven time and again.

Franco

Halflock wrote
The first point, expert on this type of lock. I can’t name one that is still alive, this isn’t to say there isn’t one, I just don’t know that person. You might try the Vatican in Rome and see if they have a lock antique section. Being this has a posiable connection to a church. Or see if you can find an expert on that time in that religion mentioned.

As for the value. I believe that you will not find that buyers and what it is valued at will meet UNLESS you can find the full story on this lock. It isn’t how rare the lock is or how much it is valued the lock is that makes a difference. It is the STORY about the lock that sells it. This has been proven time and again.

Thank You Halflock.

Sincerely, I expected to find out price in ROUGH. We are on the way to find out the complete storry of the lock. So far we know it is of religious character, for church, lutheran probably, that year 1549. is engraved, that latin language is used, that it is of very nice shape, with possible few luthers roses, that it is rather heavy ( 6 kg) etc.
Based on that I would expect from experts on this site to tell me price n ROUGH. Is this valuation section of Forum or not ? I am not willing to make up storries about my lock but to find out facts…
Please do not be offended by this post of mine…, i was sincere…

Thanks anyway,

Franco

[unknown]

Dean Nickel

None taken. That is what I am talking about. We don’t have enough to make even a rough guess yet. Or someone might have chimed in by now with something more. We have the start of what it might be worth but we have to nail down some details. The number on the lock we HAVE to find out if this was a date that was important or the date of manufacture. If it was important when was this used to mark things? If we can narrow it down to maybe a 100 year time period then we might be able to give a rough idea of a value. Old locks like this are hard to nail down. Locks made in the last 150 years are MUCH easier. I am not trying to be difficult…

Franco

Halflock wrote
None taken. That is what I am talking about. We don’t have enough to make even a rough guess yet. Or someone might have chimed in by now with something more. We have the start of what it might be worth but we have to nail down some details. The number on the lock we HAVE to find out if this was a date that was important or the date of manufacture. If it was important when was this used to mark things? If we can narrow it down to maybe a 100 year time period then we might be able to give a rough idea of a value. Old locks like this are hard to nail down. Locks made in the last 150 years are MUCH easier. I am not trying to be difficult…

Ok, Halflock,

I understand you are trying to evaluate this lock as thorough as possible. Thank You for that. :8):
I will try to keep on investigating and to do what you guys suggested to me ( chalk marking, close photographing etc.)
In the meanwhile, I received offer from possible buyer on 350 $ but I think it is worth much more and am not going to think about selling it before I find out all details.
Maybe I am subjective, but after so many discussion on this Forum, I am kind of attached to it and would hardly give it away from my house.

What do you think about offer or is lock priceless in sort of way. (regarding rarity etc) ?

Thanks !

Franco

[unknown]

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

I have watched this very interesting thread and will suggest that you may in fact have a way to date the manufacture of this lock. The language on the shackle had to be translated twice, once from how it reads to modern english characters for the latin phrase. When did popular usage change from the Roman style lettering to what was used next? That may get you within 50 years of the manufacturing date, which, for what you are asking, is close enough.
BBE.