Sargent lock

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

I’ve been away for a while and that’s when the interesting stuff usually pops up. That falls into place with my own estimation that the square pin mortise cylinders were produced from 1900 to around 1915. I was not aware of or have ever seen a padlock with the square pins.

I knew a locksmith in Louisville, KY who had a keying kit and used it to rekey local Catholic Churches. He indicated to me that he had never seen a rim cylinder and never encountered them on any other business. The mortise cylinder I have came from a church in MI.

Interestingly the top of the bottom pin was curved to match the plug diameter as shown in the patent drawing and that was likely done for pick resistance. It would be fairly effective. There were a few door hardware locks made in the early 1900’s that had the complimentary keyways and tumblers with two operating surfaces, a couple of examples that come immediately to mind are Norwalk and Chicago Hardware.
BBE.

oldbiscuit

Glad to see you on here Bill. In your opinion, did Sargent make the scroll design before, during or after the same lock with the Sargent name in raised lettering? I’m just wondering what the time frame is on my lock. I know that they used both designs with the square pins, at least that’s what the article by John Grist suggested. Thanks, Mark

oldbiscuit

Here’s the patent that I found for the lock,I’m pretty sure this is the same as my lock.
PLANOORAPH CO - Google Patents

Dean Nickel

Sorry for taking so long. I have gone thru all my blanks and the only keyway that is close it the opposite keyway or Ilco 1009. I do have that key but it isn’t anything but the new ilco blanks I am sorry to say. I do keep an eye out for any OEM key blanks and grab or trade new for the older blanks so I do have quite a few so far. Old locks should have the OEM blanks for the time they were made. I will keep an eye out for yours.

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

oldbiscuit wrote
Glad to see you on here Bill. In your opinion, did Sargent make the scroll design before, during or after the same lock with the Sargent name in raised lettering? I’m just wondering what the time frame is on my lock. I know that they used both designs with the square pins, at least that’s what the article by John Grist suggested. Thanks, Mark

That’s a tough one. I really have no reference beyond the patent you found. From general knowledge I would think that the raised lettering would have come later as around 1915 the world was starting to head into the art deco mode and away from the more decorative styles that preceeded it. But that is just conjecture, I wish I had some old Sargent catalog references.
BBE.

[unknown]

Jack Sullivan

oldbiscuit wrote
Here’s a Sargent lock I picked up a while back on Ebay. I had read an article in the Journal of Lock Collecting where the author had a similar lock with the same markings that had square pins inside rather than round. I bought this lock locked without a key not knowing the pin type,but hoping for the rare square pins. But as my luck would have it ,they were the traditional round pins. I was able to pick the lock open and remove the internal assembly screw, dissassemble the lock, clean it,find a key blank,cut it to match the pins and reassemble it to make a working lock. I have asked the author for any information on the age of the lock as well as asking various other collectors with no results. I’ve seen this same lock with the name Sargent in raised letters across the center rather than the fancy S & CO scroll on mine. The reverse sides are the same on the scroll desing and the raised name design. Anyone out there have any info or know where to point me to look? Thanks, Mark🙁think):

This lock appears to bear a strong resemblance to a lock I won on eBay the other day. The ornate design on the reverse is the same (and is shown in the patent figure attached) but the obsverse only has SARGENT in the center of a similar design. These locks appear to be works variants of the same design patented in 1903 (US729792) & likely marketed about the same time. (I have another pair of Sargent locks that also appear to be works variants of the same patented design which I plan to post later).

Jack

[unknown]

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Stadmuller had an earlier patent for the same concept, look at 564,603 from July, 1896.
BBE.

Pschiffe wrote
The Sargent Square Pin Cylinder was invented by Henry R. Stadtmuller of Whitneyville, CT and assigned to Sargent & Co. in 1897. This cylinder was invented to eliminate the use of “split pin masterkeying” in a masterkeyed cylinder thereby making it more pick resistant. This was accomplished by having two steps in each pin with a R.H. blade change key and an L.H. blade master key. See US Patent 588,026; Aug. 10, 1897. There are several in the collection of Lock Museum of America in Terryville, CT*. BBE (Billy B. Edwards, Jr.) has suggested that they are found only on Roman Catholic Churches. I’ve never actually seen one.

*adapted from Historical Research Series #13, June, 1984 by Thomas F. Hennessy, Curator, Lock Museum of America

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

Jack Sullivan

Jack Sullivan wrote
This lock appears to bear a strong resemblance to a lock I won on eBay the other day. The ornate design on the reverse is the same (and is shown in the patent figure attached) but the obsverse only has SARGENT in the center of a similar design. These locks appear to be works variants of the same design patented in 1903 (US729792) & likely marketed about the same time. (I have another pair of Sargent locks that also appear to be works variants of the same patented design which I plan to post later).

Jack

Yes, I’m aware of that. But the post your responding to is not mine but someone else’s.

Jack

[unknown]

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Initially I thought that too Doug, but traditionally in those types of ornate intertwined letter logo’s the ‘O’ was usually lower case. While it is a Sargent padlock, it makes one wonder.
BBE.

Doug MacQueen wrote
Jim, How about "S"argent & "C"O"mpany. Oh, that that was too easy. I am surprised at you. But keep up the good work. Doug

[unknown]

Donnie

oldbiscuit wrote
Here’s a Sargent lock I picked up a while back on Ebay. I had read an article in the Journal of Lock Collecting where the author had a similar lock with the same markings that had square pins inside rather than round. I bought this lock locked without a key not knowing the pin type,but hoping for the rare square pins. But as my luck would have it ,they were the traditional round pins. I was able to pick the lock open and remove the internal assembly screw, dissassemble the lock, clean it,find a key blank,cut it to match the pins and reassemble it to make a working lock. I have asked the author for any information on the age of the lock as well as asking various other collectors with no results. I’ve seen this same lock with the name Sargent in raised letters across the center rather than the fancy S & CO scroll on mine. The reverse sides are the same on the scroll desing and the raised name design. Anyone out there have any info or know where to point me to look? Thanks, Mark🙁think):

After a study of the logo, it looks to me like the S is on top, then the C , & then the O is on the bottom. I am unsure of where the & is? It could be S C & O or S & C O ..
My guess, for what it’s worth would be S C & O…..
HA, I just checked Arnells book &it shows S & C O…Sargent & co..maybe no help Donnie

[unknown]

PeterZ

Keyway looks like B (Ilco 1008 or 1008A) or K (1010 or 1010A (6 pin)).
-Pete

Timothy

Looking at the letter on padlock could it be “C” as first name “O” as middle name and “S” as last name. Just a guess. Tim

oldbiscuit

Timothy, I’m pretty sure the initials are S,Co for Sargent & Company. Mark

Dean Nickel

So it sounds like they did what was later done in wafer locks in having the cuts for one key on the left side and the other on the right. Doing it in pin locks is interesting I will have to look at mine and see if it was master keyed.

oldbiscuit

Dean, now that you mention it, it is the same idea as the new wafer locks, in that way. It was a rather novel idea at the time, but I wonder what kind of wear they had on the square pins? I would think that after a certain amount of usage the pins would be worn pretty much, enough to make it a troublesome lock. Whereas in a round pin lock, the pins have a tendency to rotate,reducing the wear to the tips of the pins.
Off this subject, but still on padlocks, I rebuilt the plug on an old Yale PKPT padlock. The key was a straight steel key and the plug had brass pins. When I opened it up and dissassembled it, The pins actually had grooves worn in the tops of them from the thin steel key. That’s the only time I’ve ever seen pins wear like that, but I can imagine the square pins after a while would act the same. Mark

Dean Nickel

I will have to find the lock to look at it again but if my memory is good I seem to recall that the pins were steel and the key was brass.

Arcade Al

Halflock wrote
I will have to find the lock to look at it again but if my memory is good I seem to recall that the pins were steel and the key was brass.

Not quite the same but there was a modern UK lever deadlock that had brass tumblers/steel key (or vice-versa) and there were serious problems with wear.
However I also have an oldish nightsafe lock in my collection that, although it has brass tumblers and a steel key and has quite serious wear, it still works beautifully.

[unknown]

bbcci

I’ve been wanting to add these pictures for a while now, but had a hard time shooting down the keyhole and coming up with a clear picture. A couple of the first pin in different lights, one with the first pin being held in showing the second pin, and one with the first 2 pins held back. The key is in one to help show its relation with the opening size, there is comfortable room to get in there and pick. Hope they help.

james024

That lock seem really nice and fit to some house.

YALE7750

bbcci wrote
I’ve been wanting to add these pictures for a while now, but had a hard time shooting down the keyhole and coming up with a clear picture. A couple of the first pin in different lights, one with the first pin being held in showing the second pin, and one with the first 2 pins held back. The key is in one to help show its relation with the opening size, there is comfortable room to get in there and pick. Hope they help.

Wow this is an old thread! I just came across a padlock with the same fancy S&CO logo as the ones mentioned here. Fortunately, it came with a factory cut key in B keyway, on which are 1891 & 1897 patent dates. When I got the lock, it wouldn’t open. The key did not turn & the shackle was stuck. The lock itself is in excellent shape, with some traces of the original shiny brass finish still visible. I was able to get it picked after much effort, but it still would not open. I could feel the locking levers had disengaged, so a block of wood was used to tap the lock open. I imagine it hadn’t been opened in a very long time.

When I went to disassemble the lock to fix it, I found that it had square pins & drivers. I have never seen anything like this before. When I searched for any info, this was the only place where I found any mention of such a lock. The one I have was not masterkeyed—the pins only have one uniform surface that contacts the key cuts. Very interesting design nevertheless.

[unknown]

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