Diebold Constellation

wylk

Yesterday I saw something new (to me), a Diebold Constellation door. I had not heard of this line and I can’t see that the name was ever trademarked by Diebold. This is a former bank which is now a bicycle shop. Here are some images:

Above, the inside face. Opening the access door reveals no time locks and no combination lock. The gear that would couple the outside handle to the boltwork has been removed.

Above, the outside face showing a single combination lock in the center of the boltwork handle. Notice the substantial doorstop mounted to the wall.

Above, the side of the door had controls for a power open/close mechanism (electrical or hydraulic?). There is a keyswitch and three buttons: Open, Close, and Stop. And this seems odd to me. Having a single lock suggests a low-cost door but power open/close seems like a higher-end option. A high-end cheap door?

Above: This is the style of logo on the knob of the combination lock. It seems strange because this logo sort of went out of style in the 1930s, or so I thought. But the building and door would seem to be 1960s-ish. Maybe Diebold still had a big boxload of dials from an old production run?

In the same building is the former night depository safe (the outside has been covered up by remodeling work) with an S&G lock but no other branding:

Can anybody shed some light on the Constellation line such as date range, options, whatever?

wylk

The county GIS system (Larimer County, CO) states the building was constructed in 1970.

Doug MacQueen

My safe picture computer is broken but IIRC the door was originally a HHM that Diebold inherited after buying out HHM in 1959.

Huw Eastwood

That is one weird door- found this- 1956 HHM

wylk

I found a US trademark for five stars that belonged to HHM, serial number 72006923 which claimed first use June 25 1954, filed April 23, 1956, granted January 15, 1957, and renewed January 15, 1977. The trademark is listed as Dead.

I could not find a trademark for “constellation” belonging to Herrin-Hall-Marvin or Diebold.

Diebold is still keeping the trademark “Herring-Hall-Marvin” alive, serial number 71016995.

Yankee

The single dial in the center of the tri spoke handle controls two combination locks. The dial has two positions, pushed in for combination 1 and pulled out for combination 2. After correctly dialing in the combinations, and the time lock having expired, the control panel is then used to open the door. Simply turning the wafer key lock to the on position, and pressing the open button, the handle will rotate, retracting the bolts. The door will then began to swing open, all done by an electric motor.

This was by no means a cheap door. It was very well made, and the mechanism was a work of art. Long ago I had the chance to inspect and operate one of these vault doors.

wylk

Most (all?) two-lock doors can be configured to either open with one lock (the other is used for redundancy), or to require both locks be operated (dual custody). I believe most banks opted for redundancy. Do you happen to know if the Constellation was similarly configurable?

Doug MacQueen

I would stick with most doors, not all on redundancy. And that door will follow the trend.

David Hovey

In my experience there were a two different styles of the 5 star, and more than few models. The Constellation being the simplest design to service. I have refurbished a few 5 stars, converted a few from automatic to manual operation, and drilled open one with a TL malfunction.

Fascinating door in my option!

David Hovey

I forgot to mention, for those of you that like to read patents, the single dial to dual comb locks for HHM is 2852929. This design is very similar to the single dial Diebold Guardian BVD.

jgriner

wylk wrote
Most (all?) two-lock doors can be configured to either open with one lock (the other is used for redundancy), or to require both locks be operated (dual custody). I believe most banks opted for redundancy. Do you happen to know if the Constellation was similarly configurable?

generally there is a bolt that is moved in the back, if its in position A then both locks must be ran, if in position B then either one can be ran…

when i started working in stl, i had 4 banks that had the vaults set so that both locks had to be run, 2 years later now i only have one…. having to run both combos to open the vd is a huge NO NO…. not only do you lose redundancy but you are increasing your chances of a lock out, because both locks must work perfectly every single time…..

btw most banks still do dual control by splitting the combo

[unknown]

wylk

David Hovey wrote
…I have refurbished a few 5 stars, converted a few from automatic to manual operation…

I’d assume that an automatic door can still be operated manually if there is a malfunction in the hydraulic system? That would be an unfortunate lockout, if the only poblem was topping off the oil.

[unknown]

Chubby

I don’t mean to hijack the thread.

Let me show my ignorance and ask; what is meant by redundancy in this context?

Doug MacQueen

backup

wylk

Chubby wrote
Let me show my ignorance and ask; what is meant by redundancy in this context?

Assuming a two-lock door, if it’s set up so that either lock can open the door, that’s redundancy. If one lock malfunctions, the other can be used to open the door. Whether the same person can operate both locks is just a matter of local policy.

On the other hand if the door is set up to require both locks be unlocked, there is no redundancy. As jgriner pointed out, both locks must work perfectly every time.

Somewhat rare is the three-lock door where any two of the three will open the door. This provides redundancy as well as dual custody (two people might be required, depending on local policy).

There have also been four-lock doors but usually only on treasury doors.

[unknown]

jgriner

wylk wrote
I’d assume that an automatic door can still be operated manually if there is a malfunction in the hydraulic system? That would be an unfortunate lockout, if the only poblem was topping off the oil.

i converted a hydraulic door to a manual door once also in hop town ky, (technically it was nothing more than an electric motor, but it had always been referred to as a hydraulic) it had a clutch, that could be overpowered to use manually. as a matter afact that was the only thing i ever serviced on the door before the motor burned up. every couple of years i had to tighten the clutch.

[unknown]

jgriner

i knew i have seen one before, it was a bank i ran a service call on once…. i think i did a combo change there, like a dummy i didn’t take a good pic of the door.

Tom Gordon

jgriner wrote
i knew i have seen one before, it was a bank i ran a service call on once…. i think i did a combo change there, like a dummy i didn’t take a good pic of the door.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14025[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]14022[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]14026[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]14023[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]14024[/ATTACH]

Thankyou -I have had that nameplate for a long while and now I know what it was off!

[unknown]

wylk

The patent for the Constellation mechanism is US 2,865,629.

T Davison

Name this one. Enjoy Tim