Vintage Yale Mortise Lock Needs Springs

starkeef

I am hoping someone on this forum can help me. I am in the process of refurbishing my Yale mortise locks. I believe they are from the late 30s or early 40s. I have about 10 of these locks in my house and every single one of them has a metal spring inside that is broken. I am not even 100% sure I have assembled these springs correctly, but the latch seems to work properly this way. Below I have posted a picture of the springs I am speaking of. I used springs from two locks as each lock had a broken or missing part. I assume these locks are still relatively common and I was wondering if I can find replacement springs somewhere. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Pschiffe

Unlikely you will find replacement springs however it is possible to fabricate your own from flat steel spring material. This can be obtained from larger industrial distributors and locksmith supply houses. ESP/Hudson offers their No. FSA-50 flat steel spring assortment which is useful for such applications, see image.

Pete Schifferli

starkeef

Yes, I was thinking those particular springs would be hard to find, but this looks like the next best thing.
I just ordered them. Thanks so much for your help.

Dean Nickel

Now you need to find info on spring bending. You just don’t bend them 90 deg. You might find that a spring wire design may work better.

http://home.earthlink.net/_bazillion/intro.html

starkeef

Actually, I am bending a flat piece of metal into different angles, opposed to a coiled wire spring. I didn’t notice a section on that but if you know of any info concerning the spring in the picture I submitted then I’d love to take a look at that. Thanks.

Dean Nickel

I have found that you need to use a post to bend around the same size as the one in the lock. You bend it 40 degree less (Aprox) than the total need to fit in the slot for the spring and travel. I use a small heat source to pin point the bend while I bend then dunk in some oil. It isn’t the greatest but I haven’t found a better way as of yet. Unlike the wire springs. Most lock makers have gone to wire springs as they are easier to make and last longer if designed right.

If I was doing this project I would look at this to do a double end wire spring. you have two heavy springs around the screw post that push on both sides of the slide with a L bend and press in the center of the push point to the left in the picture for the spring where it doesn’t mater where it pushes. So one spring is a left hand and one a right. I can see it working better than the leaf spring.

starkeef

Sounds like a great plan, however you lost me right after, ‘If I were doing it…’
If you somehow could draw me a diagram and show me the spring you are speaking of, I’m sure I could figure it out.
Thanks for all your help so far.

Dean Nickel

http://home.earthlink.net/_bazillion/types.html
See Double torsion springs

Doug MacQueen

I have made quite a few springs for old mortise locks and can’t remember a situation where all of the springs were broken in a house with 10 locks. Sounds like either a bad design or poor heat treatment. From what I remember the latch bolt would have a fairly strong spring to extend it and the hub would just follow along, being engaged by the arms of the latch bolt. The setup in your picture does not look at all familiar and seems unusual where a spring is used directly on the hub. Can you post other pictures of the whole lock with all the parts in place and another with them removed. Doug

starkeef

Here is what you requested. The one that is always broken or missing is the leaf spring that holds the knob in the correct position. The actual coil spring on the latch is fairly weak and will push the latch back but barely. This is why I believe they have this leaf spring. To hold the knob at the open position. I have taken these leaf springs from two different locks that I have opened and found in this position.

Dean Nickel

From that design I would find a heavier coil spring to replace the weak one. the other spring looks to be a knob centering spring not a return spring and wouldn’t be strong enough to pull the latch.

starkeef

Yes, I think that’s exactly what that spring does, but since those have been broken or missing the knob centering doesn’t work and thus the latch will not pop out too well. I suppose that I could try a stronger spring and see how that works. I’ll let you know. Thanks.

Doug MacQueen

Assuming you do not have lever handles or excessively heavy knobs, your lock setup of using the two springs, one on the latch and one on the hub, was most likely an attempt to lessen the pressure required to shut the door without the knob being touched. Once shut, the latch bolt should fully extend on its own by the coiled spring. If the knob is turned then the hub spring helps out returning it to neutral. As Dean said, try a stronger coil. You should be able to find something that will properly return the latch and knob without getting excessive. Remember that too strong a spring will not just make the knob harder to turn, but pushing the door shut without your hand turning knob will require more pressure. Apply a little light grease or vasoline to flat back side of the latch bolt will help out there. And forget about making the other springs. Just leave them out. Doug

starkeef

I have tried various coil springs on the mortise locks I have and they just seem to make it harder to turn the knob. I thought that maybe I could reproduce these leaf springs and find a sheet of spring steel and make and bend my own springs. The springs themselves are approximately .90mm thick (I think this is 20 gauge) and 2.75mm wide. Does anyone know of a place to buy some of this metal in this thickness? I would also be interested to know of anyone who may be able to fabricate some strips for me. Thanks for any thoughts.

Tom Gordon

starkeef wrote
I have tried various coil springs on the mortise locks I have and they just seem to make it harder to turn the knob. I thought that maybe I could reproduce these leaf springs and find a sheet of spring steel and make and bend my own springs. The springs themselves are approximately .90mm thick (I think this is 20 gauge) and 2.75mm wide. Does anyone know of a place to buy some of this metal in this thickness? I would also be interested to know of anyone who may be able to fabricate some strips for me. Thanks for any thoughts.

http://www.springman.co.uk/

[unknown]

starkeef

Tom Gordon wrote
http://www.springman.co.uk/

Thanks, Tom. I’ll check it out.

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

It appears my memory of the older mortise locks is not very good after all. Ironically, after your posting, I have just received a similar job to make hub return return springs for numerous locks all from the same house, and in this case there are several different style of Yale locks. Initially I was given the impression they would all be the same style, so I ordered a mini-coil of 1095 blue steel spring stock from McMaster-Carr, located outside of Cleveland, OH. They carry an impressive array of sizes so you should be able to find what you need. On their website type in 9075K106. This is the steel I ordered and that will put you on the correct page. You need to measure the thickness with a micrometer or calipers to get the correct size in thousands of an inch. The mini coil is the shorter length of 25 feet and should be around 25 or 30 bucks. Put several wire ties around the coil and wear safety glasses when cutting the coil open because it wants to SPRING out at you. Doug

starkeef

I did, in fact, speak to ‘The Spring Man’ and they can reproduce these springs. They charge a set up fee and then each spring will cost approx. $10 USD, so I will be into for around $200 USD by the end of it. But I figure it’s still cheaper than trying to find a modern equivalent that will fit, without some rejiggering or replacement of the door (which to date, I have been unable to locate). I am having 15 springs made up, to have some extras. If anyone has these type of locks and needs the springs, let me know and I will be happy to add some more to my order, which I would sell at cost.
Thanks to all for your help. It looks like my long search is over.

PeachtreeHills

I found your discussion on Google and joined the forum to respond. I have the exact same locks and the exact same problem…the leaf spring is broken in 10 of 12 locks in my house. How did you resolve your issue?

starkeef

PeachtreeHills wrote
I found your discussion on Google and joined the forum to respond. I have the exact same locks and the exact same problem…the leaf spring is broken in 10 of 12 locks in my house. How did you resolve your issue?

Well, you won’t find any of these springs in existence. So, I had them made from scratch. I found the correct thickness of steel, from a US manufacturer, sent it to England, had it laser cut and then bent and hardened. All through a company called ‘The Spring Man’ who I found right here on this forum. It was a rather long and arduous process and somewhat expensive but if you have those particular Yale mortise locks, it’s worth it. They are virtually unobtainable anymore. The metal in those springs was poorly made, by today’s standards, and never hardened so as soon as someone slammed a door, they were toast. They are in the final process of manufacture and are expected to be sent soon. The metal I sent over there is still in their possession, which you would certainly be welcome to. However, I think the laser cut, bending, hardening process would have to be done all over again. I put a message in this forum when I initially started this process, asking if anyone else had the same problem and if they wanted to buy any of these springs to help defray my cost. Unfortunately, you were not on the forum at that time. I could always send an email to the folks at ‘The Spring Man’ and ask how much it would cost to do more springs, if you’d like.
I did, however, find one new Yale mortise lock on eBay a while back so I had an intact spring from which to make new ones. Please see pics of both the spring and lock (without the spring in it).

[unknown]