1930's safe deposit locks and keys

Tom Gordon

Here is a picture of both a rentor and the custodian key for a Chatwood safe deposit facility.
As flat keys were unusual in Britain and Chatwood had a history of using S&G timelocks, does anyone recognise the keys as being typical of any particular American maker?

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Both keys are shown in the Ilco blank catalog 12th edition. The key with the solid head is a S&G A1124. The key with the hollow head is just listed under Miscellaneous Flat Steel as a T70. Hope that helps.
BBE.

Tom Gordon wrote
Here is a picture of both a rentor and the custodian key for a Chatwood safe deposit facility.
As flat keys were unusual in Britain and Chatwood had a history of using S&G timelocks, does anyone recognise the keys as being typical of any particular American maker?

———- Post added at 09:12 PM ———- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ———-

BBE wrote
Both keys are shown in the Ilco blank catalog 12th edition. The key with the solid head is a S&G A1124. The key with the hollow head is just listed under Miscellaneous Flat Steel as a T70. Hope that helps.
BBE.

Ooops, spoke too quick, the hollow head key isn’t a T70. There actually isn’t a match for that one in their catalog.
BBE.

[unknown] [unknown]

Tom Gordon

That is a shame. I had hopes that such a distictive bow would be definitive.
Did the S&G A1124 have any stampings on it at all?

Doug MacQueen

Tom, Tom Gallion is an expert on U.S. safe deposit keys and locks. I don’t have his number but I just saw him at the Lancaster Lock Show in Pennsylvania. He is well known amongst many lock collectors so I am reasonably sure someone on here can find a contact number. The hollow bowed key reminds of some that had a removable section for the box numbers. The odd thing though is the guard cut on the custodian key doesn’t show up on the renters. Usually the plugs are similar in design. One thing is for sure, they are definitely not Mosler, nor do I think Diebold, although at first I thought the renter to be for Diebold 17505 lock. But the custodian key (Guard key here in the states) is not correct for 17505. And the odds are that they are S&G, not just because of the timelock but because all the other big makers, including the first two mentioned and HHM and York all were also big suppliers of their own vault products. In the 1930’s S&G and Yale were the two big suppliers of locks that didn’t make vaults,etc. Doug

Tom Gordon

Thanks Doug,
As I have so many (direct from the vault) identical, I am confident that Chatwood would not have used a number insert - each had a clip and a tag with the number on, plus the lock number stamped on the blade.
This doesn’t mean that originally the bow wasn’t designed in America to have that feature. I shall wait patiently for someone to find Tom Gallion’s email address.

Syd Waterman

Tom.

The image of The Chatwood Renter Safe is taken from the 1925 catalogue.
I know this does not identify the lock manufacturer, my guess is S&G, as Chatwood
was fitting their Time Locks at this period.

Cheers. Patent

Tom Gordon

Thanks Patent, that does seem the most likely answer-I am waiting for a reply from Tom Gallion-maybe we will get a definitive answer.

Syd Waterman

Hi Tom.
Looking closely at the attached picture from the 1933 catalogue, the locks fitted appear to have been changed to the “Formidable”?
I have included a Formidable key to show the typical round bow that I think is illustrated in the catalogue picture.
What do you think Guys and Gals?
Patent

Tom Gordon

Amongst the first parts of the Shrewsbury factory to be operational were the safe deposit workshops. I suspect that my keys were probably from the earliest ones when the new factory was opened and they were buying in the locks. Around 1933 they were using double bitted keys as per your catalogue. I have a catalogue from around 1928 showing vertical, probably flat keyholes.

———- Post added at 10:08 PM ———- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ———-

PS there were previous safe deposits from Chatwood such as the 1885 (or perhaps 1905) one in Belgium with a single bitted key plus combo, but the post 1928 ones were modular which is why they were much easier to take apart and dump than a vault. This may explain why we can’t find any anywhere.

Chatwood Safe Deposit