Earlier Manifoil than Mark IV? And other questions.

wylk · 2011-06-13T19:04:08+00:00

From time to time I see references (and eBay auctions) for the Manifoil Mark IV combination lock, commonly used on UK government containers. Were there ever any Manifoils that were not Mark IV? Is there any sort of history for it, such as when it was introduced, and how secure it claims to be (as opposed to how secure it really is)? I gather it is/was used on filing cabinets and the like but not necessarily on serious safes. Also, it appears that it is no longer made. See for example Locksmith Hoddesdon - Locksmith Blog which shows a modern replacement. The dial looks very much like a Sargent and Greenleaf, but the lock body is not something I’ve seen before. Any information on this replacement, such as who makes it?

kwoswalt99

MK I? Prototype?

Brian Morland MLA Hon

Neither, this is Milners Merlin standard 3 wheel combination lock before it was developed by George Boyce to the Double drive, (which didn’t make it to production) and later the first of the Manifoil double drive locks.

Bryan Underdown

wylk wrote
Here is an image of a Manifoil replacement, the original link died.

This was the replacement lock they used to use but have gone onto to a couple of options now

Brian Morland MLA Hon

Sorry on this one, that lock is not antique or even vintage and still theoretically restricted, but have been asked not to display on a free access unrestricted forum pending clarification. Hopefully I will get the clarification when I will reinstate it.

Bryan Underdown

Brian Morland wrote
Sorry on this one, that lock is not antique or even vintage and still theoretically restricted, but have been asked not to display on a free access unrestricted forum pending clarification. Hopefully I will get the clarification when I will reinstate it.

Yes info on anything other than a MKIV is restricted

[unknown]

Brian Morland MLA Hon

The MKV (illustrated earlier in this thread) is the line up to which we can talk about, although take the normal safety precautions when handling this one due to the extra ‘heavy metal’!

Bryan Underdown

Brian Morland wrote
The MKV (illustrated earlier in this thread) is the line up to which we can talk about, although take the normal safety precautions due to the extra ‘heavy metal’!

Brian you notice that what I wrote didn’t describe or name any of the other options and always very careful about supplying any description or details on a forum

[unknown]

macs_07

Been working through a box of old Manifoils and the Milners MERLIN and comparing the locks and trying to piece together the evolution of them.
The MERLIN looks to share the base of the MANIFOILS and it is quite interesting to look at the changes in the different locks.

Is there list of changes available??
Is there a Mk-1 and what does it look like??
Is there a list of models as I seem to have found changes, upgrades that are outside the Mk2 - Mk2A - Mk3 Mk-4 numbering.

I am up to 80 odd pages in comparisons with pictures and notes at this point.

Hopefully this isn’t controversial - as I am only doing up to MkIV at this stage.

cm-manifoil-wheels-2.pdf

663kB

Gary Stephenson

braile dial and a milners regular body shape lock

macs_07

That is a really interesting lock, not the usual round form factor.
A lot of end users have issues with dialing a Manifoil let alone a vision impaired user.
Very nice and interesting. Thanks.

Bryan Underdown

At the MLA expo in October, there was a guy at the bring and buy sale who had a set of blueprints for the mkiv, with prompting he gave them to Brian Morland for the historical collection.
Iam surprised that they didn’t use the 7l64 more as it had fixings for both mkiv and the modern euro footprint, they seemed to be used mainly on Chubb fire safes

Cepasaccus

How is the 7L64 constructed? I only know the small photo from safespares.

Gary Stephenson

4 wheel with an eccentric nose roller.

Bryan Underdown

How do you add pictures to this thread as have some of the 7l64 ?

wylk

Bryan Underdown wrote
How do you add pictures to this thread as have some of the 7l64 ?

This should help - https://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/3328-How-to-upload-images-to-your-posts

[unknown]

Bryan Underdown

Nice try but that doesn’t work as it says files are too large to process

Cepasaccus

Then maybe reduce the size or quality of the photos? Forums do usually have size limits, some larger and some tiny.

Bryan Underdown

7L64 pictures

Cepasaccus

I do like the feel of the 6630 as a user because it is so smooth. Is the 7L64 the same?

Most of the newer Chubbs have for me a Chinese feeling.

Gary Stephenson

only remember coming across a couple of them out in the field, but from memory they felt Ok.

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