Identify REALLY OLD rim latch French

jkftl

I have a latch & key on Ebay just now but am concerned that my info is not accurate. My vendor name is vnbuff. The description has all I know about it and the photos are representative.

Brian Morland MLA Hon

Hi jkftl and welcome

Do post your pictures and description here, I’m sure you will get some feedback if you do.

jkftl

I can’t see how to send the 2 photos and text. Can you help?

Dean Nickel

http://www.antique-locks.com/whats-new-forum-information/754-how-upload-images-into-your-posts.html

I am not sure that lock is 400 years old. I am no expert on locks of that type or know what to look for on those so I will be quiet on this one. If you need help on getting the pictures posted let us know. I would be happy to help.

jkftl

Halflock wrote
http://www.antique-locks.com/whats-new-forum-information/754-how-upload-images-into-your-posts.html

I am not sure that lock is 400 years old. I am no expert on locks of that type or know what to look for on those so I will be quiet on this one. If you need help on getting the pictures posted let us know. I would be happy to help.

Dimensions, main box: 5 ½ × 4 ¾ × 1 ⅜″ 14,7 × 12 × 4,5 cm
I bought this ‘rim’ door latch at a village ‘vide grenier’ sale in France, for my little 1200s house restoration project. Unfortunately it was the wrong ‘hand’. I have had it examined by specialists in France and USA and they agree it dates from 1500s to 1700s. It is completely hand forged and machined. There is some wear visible on the striker. This latch is sufficiently robust as to be used daily, not to mention that it is virtually unpickable/indestructable by modern burglars.
I have disassembled it, cleaned it carefully, and OSPHOed it. I did not lubricate or coat it with anything. That is your option and job. There is no knob, but rather a pull handle on the inside only. It comes with its rare, original ornate ‘night’ key. All other such locks I have ever found have no keys. The ‘day’ or entry key is a simple ‘skeleton’ type. I will provide two such keys with the latch.
I have never seen a latch such as this in any sales or antique listings.
For my project I finally had to buy a modern rim latch with a knob.

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Dean Nickel

Now that I can look at it closer it is good workmanship.
Nice lock.

Tom Gordon

I don’t know any Americans who would be experts on old French locks. I am only a few hundred miles away from France and I cannot bring much expertise to bear on it’s ageing. I am pretty sure that it is nothing like that old though and the key does not seem to be the right one for the lock even if it operates it.

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

I would agree on the age of that lock as it is comparable to a couple of French locks I have that I know were made around 1720. The key for your lock certainly appears to be the correct warding to enter the keyway and I venture that it is a fairly tight fit.

I noticed that there is a single screw in the lock, near the center bolt. Since you say you took the lock apart, did the threads on that screw look uneven? My locks do have hand made screws. I don’t know when screw making machinery was invented but it certainly wasn’t in widespread use in the early 1700’s. Nice lock.
BBE.

Tom Gordon

I didn’t think that the bulleting matched the lock -although it is not easy to be certain from these pictures. Bullets or wards - we are probably talking about the same things, seperated by a common language.
Hand made screws were still common after 1850 I would guess, depending on the manufacturer.

jkftl

The ‘night’ key is a perfect fit and appears to have been rarely used…certainly not as much as the ‘day’ key. There is little wear in the ‘night’/deadbolt dept. There are 3 screws (Fillister head); none of them are the same diameter or threads. Further, they appear to have been used many times for maintenance and repair, with ugly screwdrivers. So we are advancing the age to 1700s? I will change the listing.

———- Post added at 03:18 PM ———- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ———-

I noticed actual WELDING used to repair a sheet metal fracture inside. That means the lock was in use in the 20th century. It is a blobby gas welding job but is super-solid.
John K.

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

jkftl wrote
So we are advancing the age to 1700s? I will change the listing.

Maybe not, I found this history online.
BBE.

Even though the concept of the screw dates back to around 200 B.C., the actual metal screw that is known today was not developed until the Renaissance. Early screws had to be handmade, so no two screws were ever alike. The time consuming process of hand filing the threads into the screw form made mass production and use virtually impossible. In 1586, the introduction of the first screw-cutting machine by Jacques Besson, court engineer for Charles IX of France, paved the way for more innovations.

Inspired by earlier designers and makers of scientific instruments like microscopes, clockmakers and gunsmiths led the way in screw-cutting machine design. In 1760, Job and William Wyatt, two English brothers, filed a patent for the first automatic screw-cutting device. Their machine could cut 10 screws per minute and was considered one of the precursors to mass production machinery.

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