Info Needed on an Independent Lock Company key maker

JohnB

I have this key maker that I need info on. I’m interested in selling it also if anyone knows whom would be interested in it.

Pschiffe

JohnB wrote
I have this key maker that I need info on. I’m interested in selling it also if anyone knows whom would be interested in it.

The Improved Duplex Key Cutting Machine will duplicate accurately cylinder keys, flat steel keys, and the lever cuts of bit keys, without the necessity of changing cutters.
Quote is from Ilco Catalog No. 12, copyright 1941. Your machine is probably ca. 1930s. These early machines were well made of cast iron and yours had a shipping weight of 50 lbs. After many years of use, they can become worn and inaccurate as the hardened steel shafts ride on iron castings without any anti-friction bearing surfaces. A machinist can install bronze bushings to alleviate this problem. Ilco began business in 1922 and moved to Rocky Mount, NC in 1974 where they are still active today. Although your machine may have some value to a collector, and appears to be in good condition, it would have little practical use in a modern locksmith shop. Contemporary duplicators are more streamlined, some are automatic and most have many additional operating features unfortunately rendering your machine rather obsolete. I have seen similar models for sale at around $100.00. I hope this information is useful.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

Dean Nickel

That is a model 177 Duplex key machine. That is all I can add to this.

gonzales1972

I have a key machine in good condition but on the logo it say’s Minute instead of Duplex. I would like to know the history on this key machine like the year and is it of value. Thanks

Pschiffe

gonzales1972 wrote
I have a key machine in good condition but on the logo it say’s Minute instead of Duplex. I would like to know the history on this key machine like the year and is it of value. Thanks

The Minute was made in the same era as the Duplex, ca. 1930-1970. The Duplex had two cutters and was intended primarily to cut cylinder and flat keys while the Minute had had three cutters to make cylinder, flat and bit keys. I actually have an older Minute in my shop which I use occasionally. I’ve seen them selling in pristine condition for as much as $500.00. Many Ilco key machines were also sold under the Keil marque, an Ilco sister company. Attached are thumbnails of the two machines for comparison, Duplex on the left and Minute on the right.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

dll932

I used to work in a shop that had a reputation for making flat, bit and antique lock keys (and made a good bit of money doing it, as well as for fitting keys to older locks). We had similar machine and used it quite a bit.

goldpro

Hi all, 19 Nov 2015.

I’m looking for parts for the bit key vise tower of an old Ilco minute machine.
I need replacement lower jaws of both the upper and lower vises,- the narrow ends.
Both lower jaws have removable, screw in inserts…I need the inserts.
I’m trying to restore the machine.
The inserts are hardened.
I could use a new large slotter cutter for it also.

If anyone has a complete minute machine in any condition for sale please let me know.

Also looking for a 6 cutter turret machine like the Ilco 2196 / keil6&½ any condition.

Any leads appreciated.
thanks
Tom

Pschiffe

goldpro wrote
Hi all, 19 Nov 2015.
I’m looking for parts for the bit key vise tower of an old Ilco minute machine.
I need replacement lower jaws of both the upper and lower vises,- the narrow ends.
Both lower jaws have removable, screw in inserts…I need the inserts.
I’m trying to restore the machine.
The inserts are hardened.
I could use a new large slotter cutter for it also.
If anyone has a complete minute machine in any condition for sale please let me know.
Also looking for a 6 cutter turret machine like the Ilco 2196 / keil6&½ any condition.
Any leads appreciated. thanks Tom

Randy Main of Main’s Lock Supply collects and sells used key machines, you might check with him to see if he can help. Website here: (no eMails)
http://www.iccores.com/
Short of finding a parts machine, it may be necessary to have a machinist make the jaws you need.
The original large slotter on the Minute is Ilco #3FSHS which is 2-½″ OD x .055″ thick x ⅜″ arbor, still available from locksmith suppliers for $33.07 suggested dealer.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

goldpro

Hi Pete,

Thank you very much for your reply.
I was hoping you would chime in.
Randy seems to have a email box in his contact area
so I sent him a message. If I don"t hear back next week
I’ll call him.
If it comes to making them I ’ll probably have a go at that myself.
Then figure out how to harden them.
Can I trouble you for a link where I can buy the slotter cutter for $33.07.

There’s a turret machine on ebay in florida now
but the seller won’t ship to Canada :-(

thanks again.
Tom

Pschiffe

goldpro wrote
Hi Pete,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I was hoping you would chime in.
Randy seems to have a email box in his contact area
so I sent him a message. If I don"t hear back next week
I’ll call him.
If it comes to making them I ’ll probably have a go at that myself.
Then figure out how to harden them.
Can I trouble you for a link where I can buy the slotter cutter for $33.07.
There’s a turret machine on ebay in florida now
but the seller won’t ship to Canada :-(
thanks again.
Tom

Tom,
Randy doesn’t do eMail, it’s just one of his little foibles! Click on your province at the link to find the Ilco rep who should be able to direct you to distributor(s) in your area. ($33.07 is US dollars, dealer net price, also try Google):
http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key-systems/contact-us/sales-representatives/825672/canada.html

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

goldpro

Hi Pete,
Wow, I got an email reply from Randy.
No parts available from him.
He’s selling his machine collection as a group.
He suggested I get a whole machine which
may be a challenge.

I hope someone here can help.

Thanks again.
Tom

Pschiffe

goldpro wrote
Hi Pete,
Wow, I got an email reply from Randy.
No parts available from him.
He’s selling his machine collection as a group.
He suggested I get a whole machine which
may be a challenge.
I hope someone here can help.
Thanks again.
Tom

Tom,
Harley Lock Supply deals in used key machines and other items, you might also check with James to see if he can help, website here:
http://www.hawleylock.com

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

Pschiffe

Pschiffe wrote
Tom,
Harley Lock Supply deals in used key machines and other items, you might also check with James to see if he can help, website here:
http://www.hawleylock.com Pete Schifferli

Typo..should read Hawley Lock Supply! Sorry for the confusion, unable to edit original post.

Pete

[unknown]

goldpro

Pete,
I found it and sent inquiry.
James emailed back and said he may have some bits
and pieces. He’d like to see pics.
I’ll send some and see what he says.
Tom

Pschiffe

goldpro wrote
Pete,
I found it and sent inquiry.
James emailed back and said he may have some bits
and pieces. He’d like to see pics.
I’ll send some and see what he says.
Tom

Tom, if you tell me which version of the Improved Minute machine you have, I can provide a pictorial parts list if that helps any. I also have operating instructions if interested. See thumbnails below, “early” model on the left; “later” model L on the right.

Pete

[unknown]

goldpro

Hi Pete,

Thanks for that!
I’d be most interested in a parts list and op instructions.
I have the later version L on the right.
there’s a couple of pics over in this thread-
http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/1978-Very-antique-key-and-lock-related?highlight=antique+lock+related

Can you tell us why it’s called “minute” and what was “improved”
from an earlier version?

The base on the one I have is super heavy duty with 6 or 7 cast iron ribs underneath the tower area. It seems way over built but very high quality.
I see the other one was open in that area.

I’m often tasked with creating/fitting bit/barrel keys to locks with 3 or 4 levers
like those small high quality old British locks on bookcases etc. So I plan to
add X Y leadscrews/racks, dial indicators, etc like on a mancuna machne to help control the spacing and depth. Do you know if any maker ever made a
bit/barrel “code” machine or were they all basically duplicators?

thanks for your interest.
Tom

cashman

My dad had one of the “Improved Minute” machines. I believe it was one of the first machines he purchased when he set up his shop in 1946. We didn’t use it much after I became old enough to help out in the shop, only using it to cut bit keys when they came in for duplication and occasionally when doing a large safe-deposit key order. I don’t remember ever duplicating a cylinder key on it. I have an ad from a wholesale locksmith catalog circa 1965 that features that machine. My dad sold it to a fellow locksmith after he closed his shop in 2003. Thanks!!!

Pschiffe

goldpro wrote
Hi Pete,
Thanks for that!
I’d be most interested in a parts list and op instructions.
I have the later version L on the right.
there’s a couple of pics over in this thread-
http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/1978-Very-antique-key-and-lock-related?highlight=antique+lock+related
Can you tell us why it’s called “minute” and what was “improved”
from an earlier version?
The base on the one I have is super heavy duty with 6 or 7 cast iron ribs underneath the tower area. It seems way over built but very high quality.
I see the other one was open in that area.
I’m often tasked with creating/fitting bit/barrel keys to locks with 3 or 4 levers
like those small high quality old British locks on bookcases etc. So I plan to
add X Y leadscrews/racks, dial indicators, etc like on a mancuna machne to help control the spacing and depth. Do you know if any maker ever made a
bit/barrel “code” machine or were they all basically duplicators?
thanks for your interest. Tom

Tom,

PDF of operating instructions with parts list for Model L is attached:

ilcominute.pdf
4MB
Minute is apparently a reference to the time it took to cut a key. The Ilco Catalog No. 12 © 1941 states, “This is the most popular machine among professional key cutters, because it is always set up for duplicating practically every type of key accurately and completely in less than a minute”.
Both the “early” and “late” models bear the Improved designation as did the Improved American and Improved Minute from that era. I am unaware of any earlier models sans the Improved marque!
There were some vintage code machines, but as far as I know they were all for cylinder type keys. Olde time locksmiths often had sets of coded pre-cut bit and barrel keys, as well as flat steel; and would make a duplicate if they had the pre-cut original. The extant Framon #1 and #2 can be used to cut lever tumbler safe deposit keys by code but the vise will not accommodate bit or barrel keys .

Pete

[unknown]

goldpro

I really do appreciate the pdf Pete, thank you.
I printed it out and I’ll be studying it.
Comically, the parts drawing doesn’t list the
jaw inserts I need.
Maybe it’s an opportunity to remake the entire
2 vises and make the corrugated insert longer so
it can grip better. I could incorporate a “roller” feature
also, to round over the ends of the lever cuts.

Cashman,
If you ever talk to the “fellow Locksmith” who ended up with the
machine please ask if He’d like to sell it and ship it to Canada.
Thanks.

Tom

cashman

goldpro.
I will go by and see if he still has the machine? I have several Ilco duplicators including a hand cranked one. I have another hand cranked one that was made in England, but I can’t remember the name on it. I’ll try to post some pics of them. Thanks!!!