Old castell padlock pat n 430168

femurat

I got this nice padlock some time ago and was going to make a key for it.

I found a key cut quite shallow that seemed a bit too big but could fit. Filed it until it entered the keyway. Then I blackened it with a candle and tried to impression it. Got not much luck because I couldn’t find a way to put pressure to the pins to leave marks. Pulling the lock apart with my fingers was not enough, and I don’t want to ruin this beauty so I’m not going to force it with tools that could leave marks. Does anybody have some hints on how to impression it?

I shimmed it open and analyzed the pins. The bittings seems very similar to a couple keys I found with an online search. The first pin long, the second one very short and the last two almost the same length as the first one. Is this padlock part of a big master key system?

Thanks 🙂

Huw Eastwood

that one had me guessing for a minute as ‘castell’ is Welsh for castle- interesting padlock and a name I hadn’t heard of before.

Timothy

Nice Lock. This look like to me almost like all the push key padlock (Yale Model 803, 805 and other padlock). Look like you need to push pressure on the lock as per drawing A & B. Maybe using a rope or something to pull on the lock A & B to impression the key. I remember long time ago a guy came up a tool to pull the shackle while trying to pick the lock or impression the key also using a rope. Keep this in mind only use so much pressure to do this. I attached the PDF….Timothy….

gb430168a.pdf

775kB

Timothy

I was just thinking if you have some kind of small wood wedge to put between the lock part to add pressure to pull apart….Timothy…

femurat

MaxVaultage, castello means castle in italian. Our languages do share something after all.

Timothy, thanks a lot for the patent, I couldn’t find it myself. I’ll try some rope or some wooden wedges and see what happens.

Cheers 🙂

Riyame

I had one of those for a short period several years ago. They are a zipper/briefcase lock. Not sure how you would tension it though.

Paul Prescott

Also used on coin operated Gas / Electric meters.

femurat

This padlock had many uses, but mine, as you can see in the first picture of this thread, had a funny looking thing attached to it. I think it was used to lock postal sacks.

I got a couple YA6 blanks and filed down one to fit the keyway. I had to file it on top and bottom, but fortunately I hadn’t to fiddle with the wardings because they matches.

Here is my first failed attempt with an old key and the new blank just filed.

And here are the pin impressions. I’m impressed (pun intended) on how good they are.
I’ve sanded the key smooth with 400 grit sandpaper, inserted in the padlock and wiggled left and right while trying to pull the lock apart with my fingers. I really don’t want to ruin this padlock so I’m taking my time and working carefully.
I’ll scrape some lines along the pin positions on the key side so I can follow them while filing.
I’ll finish this key as soon as I have some free time.

A warning if you shim these padlocks: the first two pins will fly away when you open it. Keep the shim down while opening the lock.
If it happens, don’t move the lock, look for the pins and insert them again. The pin stacks are balanced so be sure to put the correct pin in its chamber.

Cheers 🙂

femurat

After a lot of filing I got the key that opened the lock.

I was very happy and excited and had time to take the pictures you see above before closing the padlock again.

Then I felt something small falling. One pin was on the floor and another one was on the table. Now I know why the original key has such a weird looking flat part between the bittings and the bow.
I had to think for a few minutes to understand why the bottom pins of chamber 1 and 2 fell off and to find a way to put them back where they belonged.
I closed the padlock, removed the key and shimmed it open again. I kept the padlock upside down so the top pins in chamber 1 and 2 were sitting in the plug and not in the lock body. I could then open it and insert the bottom pins back in their chambers. If it wasn’t possible to shim it I could have broken it at least three times already.

I need to solder something on the bottom of this key to fill the gap between it and the plug. Now that I know it has this defect I can use it alongside with a pick, so the pins can’t fly out again. Or I can find a proper key blank and copy the bittings to that blank.

Comparing the old key I tried to impression earlier with the working one, I see I may still make it work. Looks like I just need to make some cuts deeper. It’s strange that I stopped getting marks.

Finally the padlock has its strage hasp on again and its working key.

Cheers 🙂

Timothy

WOW! I knew you will get it one way or another good job….Timothy…..

Timothy

Femurat
I was looking at your key and looking at patent drawing your key has shoulder on the blank. The patent drawing show no shoulder on the blank key as be flat. So the bottom pins will not fall out…..Timothy…

femurat

Hi Timothy,

thanks for the input. I know. Just need to modify a new blank in a different way. First of all I’ll file down the top and bottom of the blank so it’s the same size as this one. Then I’ll shorten it a little so I can shape the key bow like the original key.

I hope to have some time later and have a go at it.

Cheers 🙂

Timothy

Femurat
Not sure if you have this or not. If still trying to get key blank maybe go here. < https://www.davenport-burgess.com/ > Down load key blank catalog as these key are from England……Timothy…..

femurat

Thanks for the link, Timothy. I couldn’t find a castell key on that website. Maybe downloading the catalog and carefully looking could get me a similar blank. To be honest I don’t feel like looking trough a thousand key shapes and profiles just to find a quite similar one.

To solve the problem of the pins falling down, I filed the shoulder of the key and cut a piece of brass to match the gap between the key and the padlock.

Ten got ready to solder it. I heated everything and then applied some solder, then heated some more and added some more solder. I then checked the brass piece was straight and heated it just a few seconds more, then let it cool.

I left the brass piece a bit bold so I filed it down later. Then sanded it smooth and finally gave it a quick buff.
This padlock finally has a properly working key!

Cheers 🙂

Timothy

Nice good job Femurat! I know what it like going into thousand of key blank just to find the right key……Timothy…..

Pschiffe

Timothy wrote
Nice good job Femurat! I know what it like going into thousand of key blank just to find the right key……Timothy…..

Silca YA6 is a 4-pin blank which may be hard-to-find, but there are numerous 5-pin versions; some of which are listed here and could be shortened if that helps any:

JMA YA-1D, YA-1DS, YA-1DE
Silca YA38, YA226
Ilco 14KH

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

femurat

Pschiffe wrote
Silca YA6 is a 4-pin blank which may be hard-to-find, but there are numerous 5-pin versions; some of which are listed here and could be shortened if that helps any:

JMA YA-1D, YA-1DS, YA-1DE

Silca YA38, YA226

Ilco 14KH

Pete Schifferli

Thanks for mentioning that, but it won’t fit this padlock. I started with a YA6 but had to file it down on many sides to make it fit. For example I filed down the flat side of the blade, opposite of where the bittings are. Then I had to file down the shoulder to fit the moving part of the padlock. If I have an original YA6 at home I’ll take a picture of the two keys side to side so you will see what I mean.

Cheers 🙂

[unknown]

femurat

Here is the key with the blank I used. As you can see it was heavily modified.

Now that I look at it this way, I think I could have done it different.
I could have filed the tip shorter and filed the bow instead of having to add a piece.
When I have some time I may try to make a copy of that key…

Cheers 🙂

Timothy

Found this on eBay while back. I just thinking post this padlock with the key to give some example of what the key should be. Timothy…