Sargent master ring padlock

YALE7750

Has anyone seen or have any info about Sargent padlocks with dual shear lines like the Corbin master ring? The lock is identical in construction to the quatrefoil design brass locks, but has plain sides with nothing but the name SARGENT. The cylinder is identical to the duplex cylinder discussed here earlier that is found in some union locks and mortise cylinders. I’m trying to determine approx age of these padlocks.

Pschiffe

YALE7750 wrote
Has anyone seen or have any info about Sargent padlocks with dual shear lines like the Corbin master ring? The lock is identical in construction to the quatrefoil design brass locks, but has plain sides with nothing but the name SARGENT. The cylinder is identical to the duplex cylinder discussed here earlier that is found in some union locks and mortise cylinders. I’m trying to determine approx age of these padlocks.

The Sargent master ring cylinder, they called it Duplex, was patented Sept. 4, 1906; No. 830,013. Thus your unusual padlock likely dates from that era. Like the Corbin product, the system was developed to eliminate the key interchange problem on masterkeyed locks using split-pin mastrekeying.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

YALE7750

Pschiffe wrote
The Sargent master ring cylinder, they called it Duplex, was patented Sept. 4, 1906; No. 830,013. Thus your unusual padlock likely dates from that era. Like the Corbin product, the system was developed to eliminate the key interchange problem on masterkeyed locks using split-pin mastrekeying.

Pete Schifferli

Thanks for the reply, I figured these were prob early 1900’s or so, perhaps newer since the design is plain. Would these be pinned like Corbin? When I took one apart I found it was a 6 pin lock with 4 segments in several chambers ( bottom pin, two in the middle, top pin) as if the plug was master keyed like a regular lock in addition to having another master that operates the ring (Like Best cores). I thought these were mastered by using solid bottom pins for change keys and long buildup pins to reach the ring shearline for the master keys, thus eliminating the need for master wafers used in split pin master keying. Really an interesting design either way.

[unknown]

oldbiscuit

how about a picture of the lock and a few gut shots of it disassembled ?

Pschiffe

YALE7750 wrote
Thanks for the reply, I figured these were prob early 1900’s or so, perhaps newer since the design is plain. Would these be pinned like Corbin? When I took one apart I found it was a 6 pin lock with 4 segments in several chambers ( bottom pin, two in the middle, top pin) as if the plug was master keyed like a regular lock in addition to having another master that operates the ring (Like Best cores). I thought these were mastered by using solid bottom pins for change keys and long buildup pins to reach the ring shearline for the master keys, thus eliminating the need for master wafers used in split pin master keying. Really an interesting design either way.

Like the Corbin Russwin version, the plug shear line is for the change key while the ring shear line is for the master key. The pin stack of a master keyed cylinder would consist of bottom pin, build-up pin, top pin and spring.The presence of master wafers in some chambers likely indicates grand master keying.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

YALE7750

oldbiscuit wrote
how about a picture of the lock and a few gut shots of it disassembled ?

I’d love to post some pictures when I have some free time & a decent camera. I literally cannot find photos anywhere on the net of these locks. The same goes for bicentric locks– I have one I need to take apart and rekey when I have time.

[unknown]

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

YALE7750 wrote
I’d love to post some pictures when I have some free time & a decent camera. I literally cannot find photos anywhere on the net of these locks. The same goes for bicentric locks– I have one I need to take apart and rekey when I have time.

The mechanism for the Sargent Duplex does not lend itself to easy operation in a padlock unless they just copied the Corbin patent for the padlock. Even a photo from a phone would help answer your questions.

I doubt that you will find info online about the Bi-centric padlock as few would risk taking them apart.
BBE.

[unknown]

YALE7750

Here is a photo of the cylinder and pins–this is the only part of the lock I had at the time. Both sleeve and plug are retained by a small piece of metal held in place by one screw. The plate that screws onto the back of the plug only activates the locking bolt, it does not hold the cylinder in place. b

When I got this the cylinder was almost totally frozen up. Rust wasn’t an issue since everything is brass including the shackle. Based on the amount of patina on the lock this cylinder came out of it was used outdoors for a long long time.

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

YALE7750 wrote
Here is a photo of the cylinder and pins–this is the only part of the lock I had at the time. Both sleeve and plug are retained by a small piece of metal held in place by one screw. The plate that screws onto the back of the plug only activates the locking bolt, it does not hold the cylinder in place. b

When I got this the cylinder was almost totally frozen up. Rust wasn’t an issue since everything is brass including the shackle. Based on the amount of patina on the lock this cylinder came out of it was used outdoors for a long long time.

Wow, definitely the Duplex patent. Quite a find.
BBE.

[unknown]

nickmannnxx

That padlock is awesome. I just started getting into Corbin master ring cylinders and was trying to find who else manufactured similar locks. Thanks for posting.

YALE7750

nickmannnxx wrote
That padlock is awesome. I just started getting into Corbin master ring cylinders and was trying to find who else manufactured similar locks. Thanks for posting.

AFAIK Sargent is the only other besides Corbin that made such cylinders. I started collecting around 1983 or so, and I just discovered last year that somebody besides P&F Corbin produced cylinders like this in the early days of pin tumbler locks. Apparently Sargent was quite innovative in the very early 1900’s with oddities such as square pin cylinders and the duplex locks, but not too much later it seems they were all discontinued.

[unknown]

nickmannnxx

yale7750,
square pin cylinders??? that sounds very interesting. do you have any pictures or information about those locks? i would love to get my hands on one. sargent is definitely one of my favorite manufacturers of vintage locks.

YALE7750

nickmannnxx wrote
yale7750,
square pin cylinders??? that sounds very interesting. do you have any pictures or information about those locks? i would love to get my hands on one. sargent is definitely one of my favorite manufacturers of vintage locks.

Search through earlier posts– there was some discussion of early Sargent padlocks with square pins. It was a form of master keying–the pins had two steps, and keys either engaged the left or right sides. If I recall correctly square pin cylinders were once used on church doors as well.

[unknown]

nathanbonstein

did you ever get a chance to rekey your bicentric padlock ?

YALE7750

nathanbonstein wrote
did you ever get a chance to rekey your bicentric padlock ?

Not yet, I’m hesitant to take it apart since it’s in pretty good condition and has the original patina. They are pretty rare and tough to come by in decent shape. In mint condition they are pretty expensive.

I’ve cleaned up and rekeyed Yale 840 padlocks that were in pretty bad shape, but they just don’t look the same as original locks that have never been opened.

I recall seeing some photos of the Yale bicentric disassembly on the internet at one time, but I cannot seem to locate them. It is a rare lock; perhaps if I had another in poor shape I would attempt it.

[unknown]

Pschiffe

nickmannnxx wrote
yale7750,
square pin cylinders??? that sounds very interesting. do you have any pictures or information about those locks? i would love to get my hands on one. sargent is definitely one of my favorite manufacturers of vintage locks.

See pdf of Historical Research Series #13, June 1984 by Thomas F. Hennessy attached.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

historicalresearchseries1302192015.pdf

108kB

Robotnik

oldbiscuit wrote
how about a picture of the lock and a few gut shots of it disassembled ?

I know this thread’s a bit old, but I added a duplex to my collection recently. Figured I’d post my disassembled pic to give an all-inclusive view of the internals in case anyone’s interested.

[unknown]

Pschiffe

Robotnik wrote
I know this thread’s a bit old, but I added a duplex to my collection recently. Figured I’d post my disassembled pic to give an all-inclusive view of the internals in case anyone’s interested.

I believe the correct terminology would be “master ring” rather than “duplex”.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

Robotnik

I know Corbin referred to these as master ring locks (I have many of those as well 🙂), however I believe Sargent marketed theirs as the Duplex.

Timothy

Just found Patent Number #1069734 as saying Duplex Cylinder….Timothy….

us1069734.pdf

450kB