Hobbs & Co lever padlock

Paw2121

Can anyone give me some info on this padlock pls?

Scott Klemm

The name Hobbs & Co. indicates the lock was made between 1852 and 1856. Afterwards the company was called Hobbs, Ashley & Co and still later Hobbs, Hart & Co. Its founder, Alfred C. Hobbs, an American, is famous in lock history for picking all the best locks of that time.

Paw2121

Scott Klemm wrote
The name Hobbs & Co. indicates the lock was made between 1852 and 1856. Afterwards the company was called Hobbs, Ashley & Co and still later Hobbs, Hart & Co. Its founder, Alfred C. Hobbs, an American, is famous in lock history for picking all the best locks of that time.

Thanks very much for the info. Would you have any idea on value I paid$10 so wanted to see if I got a good deal?

[unknown]

Syd Waterman

In my opinion this lock was not made by Hobbs & Co.
If you look closely you will see that the letters “BB” in the word Hobbs have been altered from “PP”"
This padlock was made in the Indian Sub- Continent ,branded Hopps & co and not in London as the
stamping on the swing drop would suggest.
Patent

oldbiscuit

Regardless of who made the lock, the one thing that would make this lock a no buy for me is the fact that someone at sometime in the past has opened the lock body. You can see the file marks and the crude reriveting of the case rivets. It’s hard for me to tell from the picture if the B’s in the Hobbs name are right or not, Either way, I think you did alright at $10 for a working lock. Mark

Scott Klemm

After reading the other comments, I think that it may have indeed originated in India. It seemed a little too rough and crude compared to the Hobbs & Co. padlock in my collection. At the time I wrote my response, I just assumed it had been subjected to harsher conditions than mine. For comparison, here is a picture of mine.

Syd Waterman

Scott Klemm wrote
After reading the other comments, I think that it may have indeed originated in India. It seemed a little too rough and crude compared to the Hobbs & Co. padlock in my collection. At the time I wrote my response, I just assumed it had been subjected to harsher conditions than mine. For comparison, here is a picture of mine.

Nice padlock, Scott.
Image attached showing range of open Shackle padlocks available in Hobbs Hart and Co. Ltd. 1948 catalogue.

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[unknown]

Scott Klemm

The image from the 1948 catalog suggests that the name alone cannot be used to date a Hobbs padlock. The padlock shown is marked Hobbs & Co. instead of Hobbs Hart. It’s curious that they didn’t make the name change. This is not helpful to the collector. But, maybe the company simply used an old illustration.

Syd Waterman

As you say,Scott,dating can be tricky.
Think of Hobb’s and Co. being the trademark of a Company that changed name 4 times between 1852 and 1974.
Very occasionally you can come across a lock marked Hobbs Hart & Co. Ltd.
Patent

Richard Phillips

Scott Klemm wrote
The image from the 1948 catalog suggests that the name alone cannot be used to date a Hobbs padlock. The padlock shown is marked Hobbs & Co. instead of Hobbs Hart. It’s curious that they didn’t make the name change. This is not helpful to the collector. But, maybe the company simply used an old illustration.

When he set up the company, with the help of some financial investors, Alfred Hobbs decreed that the company’s products should always be marked only as ‘HOBBS’. That continued, regardless of the legal name of the company, even after Hobbs’ death, when the company became Hobbs Hart Co., Hart having managed the company for many years. All products continued to be marked ‘HOBBS’ until the company joined the Chubb group.

[unknown]

Richard Phillips

It is common for Indian locks to copy the style of quality British locks, and to to carry versions of the genuine marks.
However, as the indian craftsmen commonly did not read english, they copied english lettering as one would copy a picture, without understanding the significance of the marks, nor of any change. Accuracy of copying varied. Chubb locks, especially padlocks, were another target of the copiests. Some copies (from a 4 lever model) have been marked ‘40 lever’, a clear indication the stamp could not be understood.

Richard Phillips

I must apologise.
As far as i can remember, my info on Hobbs’ desire to have the company’s products only marked HOBBS came from the company history, and I do not have a copy. Nor do i have a Hart famioly tree, but there were surely severaL members involved over the years.

Hart had to wait until Hobbs’ death, in 1892, before he could add himself to the company’s legal name. I formerly had a box of Hobbs cabinet locks collected from Barclays Bank branches, ranging from end of 19C to probably just post-WW2. There were detail differences in the stampings, such as typeface and size varying, but all were only HOBBS, as indeed Scott Klemm’s catalogue page shows.

However, I have looked again at a cell lock I have, the trigger-action 4lever with indicator and spherical fixed handle. Apart from my own one i have not looked closely at this lock which from end of 19C onwards was fairly common in police stations and prisons, including army prisons. It is clearly marked HOBBS HART CO., and mine came from a police station of c1890’s.
Perhaps in the elation of finally having his name recognised (Hart had been running the company since Hobbs had returned to USA and other challenges) he triumphantly put his name on a few locks? Also, there are safeplates marked Hobbs Hart.

Such locks are probably not a good dating guide.