TWO locks the same / ALMOST ??

Donnie

🙁whew):Hi team, I have these two padlock’s & am uncertain as to what the odd one really is.
Anyone have any ideas? Now I will try to post some photos 🙁rofl):

Dean Nickel

Well they are both the same model of lock at first glance. One has been brushed by a bench grinder with a wire wheel to the point of worthless. I would also need to see the bottoms of the locks to come close to a date outside of 1870s-1940s.

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Donnie wrote
🙁whew):Hi team, I have these two padlock’s & am uncertain as to what the odd one really is.
Anyone have any ideas? Now I will try to post some photos 🙁rofl):

The one on the right is pre 1929. The trefoil logo was discontinued in 1929. The one on the left is a much later model. Curious that it doesn’t say Yale on either side, but I agree they are both the same model. not sure the left one has been brushed, might have been chemically cleaned.
BBE.

[unknown]

Pschiffe

BBE wrote
The one on the right is pre 1929. The trefoil logo was discontinued in 1929. The one on the left is a much later model. Curious that it doesn’t say Yale on either side, but I agree they are both the same model. not sure the left one has been brushed, might have been chemically cleaned.
BBE.

Billy,
I have no intention to dispute your expertise, but my information indicates that the trefoil logo was used from 1884-1909* thus the right example may date from even earlier.

*Historical Research Series #19, May 1987 by Thomas F. Hennessy.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

oldbiscuit

While they might be the same model, I don’t believe the one on the left was made by Yale. It’s a bad forgery at the least, look at the difference in the thickness of the raised patterns. The left one is a lot thicker, wider. Even when Yale made locks for other companies, they still had the Yale name on the hasp. Just my opinion, for what it’s worth. Mark

Donnie

I don’t think that the lock was made by Yale. I didn’t mean to imply that.
There are noticeable differences in the relief pattern all over the lock.
By all appearances it looks NEW, except the chain & clevis.
It is very close to being the same size.. The shackle nose shows NO wear, like it was never used. The shackle spring is strong. The shackle also is kinda sharp at the edges, not square sharp, but not worn either… the key hole is kinda oval, no that is not what I am trying to say..it is flared a bit in the center exactly like the Yale…The key from the Trefoil fits it perfectly….I picked it up at a flea mkt this summer & am just trying to find out what it is….There is not a reference mark or # on it anywhere..
I didn’t think that this lock was being made in Asia, as the original is not worth the effort to copy. If I fail here, I will take it to the Lancaster show next summer…..Donnie:=(:

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Pschiffe wrote
Billy,
I have no intention to dispute your expertise, but my information indicates that the trefoil logo was used from 1884-1909* thus the right example may date from even earlier.

*Historical Research Series #19, May 1987 by Thomas F. Hennessy.

Pete Schifferli

Thanks Pete,

I remember seeing authorization documents when I worked there and can’t really remember if they said 1927 or 1929, but they definitely weren’t 1909. Maybe Scott Klem could look in his 1929 catalog to see if the logo appears there?
BBE.

[unknown]

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

BBE wrote
Thanks Pete,

I remember seeing authorization documents when I worked there and can’t really remember if they said 1927 or 1929, but they definitely weren’t 1909. Maybe Scott Klem could look in his 1929 catalog to see if the logo appears there?
BBE.

Ooops, typo, should have said Scott Klemm.
BBE.

[unknown]

Donnie

Dean, my mystery lock may be worthless, but it was not made that way by means of a wheel grinder…or wire brush. I thought that it may be an unfinished lock made my ????????….another company, that is what I am looking for, not the year of mfg.
What would you able to discern by seeing the bottom ? The key openings are exactly alike…I will try to show this in a later photo…Looking at the shackle, there is NO side play, & the nose of it shows NO wear…I’m sure that this lock has seen no action, but what I’m not sure of is WHO MADE IT>>
I don’t think that it is from India or China………or do I think that it is intended to be a copy…..as I said before, there are too many difference’s in the relief pattern of the case.
Also wire brushing can not account for the pebbled texture in the circle
It is not earth shattering important that I know, but I just WANT to find out what I can
Donnie

Dean Nickel

The key holes changed over the span of the manufacture. I have seen three different types. Not sure when the changes happened or why. Some were flat, others were raised and one other was curved. All said Yale.

Timothy

I just notice that the lock with Trefoil Logo has code number on left side as look like “FB”. ON right sidehould have a number. The other lock does it have any code number on it at all..??..Timothy

Donnie

Tim, I’m not sure where you are seeing the 14 at….It is good observation that you are picking up a #——but looking at the trefoil side under a loope, there is an “NC” in the "bird head "area at about the 11 o:clock position near the heel area (hinge)… I see no other marks……..is this what you are seeing………..Donnie

Timothy

Donnie
Yes that the first code number but as you look on the other side at 1:00 there should be a number there. That would give full code number for the lock…Timothy….