Master No.19

Adrian Weber · 2013-09-06T00:00:09+00:00

I recently got one of the nicest gifts that someone ever gave to me. Gifted collection items are always a bit more special to me than the bought ones I have no idea why but it makes me happy. This Master No.19 was bought by a friend called mac in the US, then shipped to a good friend of mine in Canada and after that sold or traded to another collector in Canada. This collector and lock picker (he always tries to get met practising my picking skills more than I do) then offered to send it my way. I was flattered by that offer and agreed. At first the package did not arrive and was send back to Canada. He had to resend the package and 2 months later it finally arrived. When being at the German Zoll office I told the friendly woman that I do not have a bill nor mails on the value of the locks in the package. I convinced her of my good intentions and that I would never lie to her on the value of the package. I promised to bring some sort of price information next time and was able to obtain the package. I am very thankful and happy that I could finally add this padlock to my collection. The Master No.19 is probably the heaviest and biggest laminated padlock that has ever been produced. It weighs 1.2kg and the shackle has a diameter of 13.5mm. You can not shim it nor bypass it. The core is a key in knob cylinder but the one with the larger diameter and not the small one, it is featuring 6 pins. It is key retaining, double locked and you can not shim it. This Master Lock was still Made in USA and has a nice patina. The key number on the bottom is still there and not erased, which also makes it vintage. It also features and intelligent drainage system and there is a drainage hole on both sides of the shackle. One of the keys has a little crack and I am only using the other key as it is fully intact. I also added the patents in this topic and one of the patents is either wrong or about the plating process. I did not read it in full yet. This padlock is of much better quality than nowadays Master Locks. The quality is even better than Masters Flagship the Magnum. The only advantage of the Magnum would be its inner rivet system which is like the solid body technology of Commando Lock. If people here are interested in pictures of a Magnum that I took apart I can post them. Since we are an antique locks forum I decided not to post them for now but I could add them anytime. Be careful when handling cadmium plated locks. I always wash my hands after refurbishing or playing with cadmium plated locks. I hope you enjoy the pictures 🙂

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Retro00064 wrote
Thanks for the drainage system patent. I never knew that Master started making locks with such a feature before, and learned something new from this thread! I looked at some of my locks and it seems that other Master padlocks were made with the drainage system too: my circa 1960s Master “Super Security” #81 (their first padlock to have a 5 pin cylinder, I believe; any knowledge of what year that one was introduced, BBE? :-), a circa 1980s #15 (of a similar vintage to your #19), and some other standard pin tumbler models from the 1970s to the 1990s have a small hole at the bottom of the receptacle for the shackle toe in the lock bodies (clogged up with dirt in the more heavily weathered ones), which may be a drain hole, while some 1990s #5 padlocks of mine have a huge hole.

I don’t seem to have any dating info on the 81, but the 15 was introduced in 1968.
BBE.

[unknown]

Adrian Weber

I was also guessing that mine is from the 80s.

I did however not buy this one! It was a gift from a good friend that lives in Canada 🙂
Very generous and nice guy!

Adrian Weber

He is also a member here and actually posted in this thread (Alaphablue)
I still have to find some nice DOM cylinders for him 🙁nerd):

monkey222

Hello Adrian #19 expert,

I am the proud owner of an original 19 purchased circa 2005 in US.

I am pleased to say that I just snagged a another beauty on ebay. I want to use this one for outdoor use. Would it harm the lock if I tried to weatherproof it with some type of latex spray? Overcovering, rubber or foam type? Any recommendations? It is so pretty and new and hard to find…..looks too good to leave outside.

Thank you! Advice appreciated. And how do you oil it? 3 in 1 oil? Would sewing machine oil work?

monkey222

BBE wrote
I was always technical information and designing key systems and as such made a point of not knowing prices. I would guess $20-$25, but that is just a guess. There is unlikely to be any difference between the first one produced in 1976 and the last one produced in 2000 as the die wouldn’t have worn enough to need to be replaced.
BBE.

I purchased my first 19 new from local hardware store in upstate NY. They ordered it from a shipyard supply store…was told that it was out of production then. I think I paid about 60 to 70 $ and then keys were ordered.

Just bought a very very slightly used beauty from ebay for 65$ including ship
with box. I feel like I won the lottery. Doing the Mambo #19 today

[unknown]

Adrian Weber

Hey man!

Glad you got your own No.19 it is a real beauty 🙁nerd):

If I were you I would keep the new one as a collectors item and get a sturdy weather proof Anchor Las padlock for outdoor usage! They are the best padlock manufacturer I know of and VERY secure. Or lets say one of the best ones at least.

Even if you cover the laminations in epoxy, the weather and water etc. will come through one day. Remember that you are dealing with a zinc plated raw steel lock and not a stainless steel + brass padlock. If you would buy a mid sized Anchor Las Grade 3 padlock with brass body and stainless steel shackle for example, that lock would be PERFECT for a shed and outdoor applications. Not too big but also not too small and 100% weather resistance!

All the best,

Adrian

Pschiffe

Adrian Weber wrote
Hey man!
Glad you got your own No.19 it is a real beauty 🙁nerd):
If I were you I would keep the new one as a collectors item and get a sturdy weather proof Anchor Las padlock for outdoor usage! They are the best padlock manufacturer I know of and VERY secure. Or lets say one of the best ones at least.
Even if you cover the laminations in epoxy, the weather and water etc. will come through one day. Remember that you are dealing with a zinc plated raw steel lock and not a stainless steel + brass padlock. If you would buy a mid sized Anchor Las Grade 3 padlock with brass body and stainless steel shackle for example, that lock would be PERFECT for a shed and outdoor applications. Not too big but also not too small and 100% weather resistance!
All the best,Adrian

I’m not familiar with the Anchor Las padlock suggested by Adrian, likely not something readily available in the US. I can recommend one that would be highly suitable and that is the Abus 83WP/63 S2 weather proof eXtreme series:

2-½″ wide solid steel body with Nano Protect chrome plating, ideal for harsh outdoor conditions
7/16″ dia. hardened special alloy shackle with Nano Protect for extra corrosion and cutting resistance
durable weather cover with drainage system protects from water, ice, dirt and grime
MSRP is $33.00, available from many US distributors
patented “Z-bar” for 2-in-1 function; converts key-retaining to non key-retaining and vice versa within seconds
cylinder can be re-keyed into many popular keyways, accepts most all 99-type universal KiK cylinders
see image here:

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

Adrian Weber

Anchor Las is a very decent company from Sweden. Your suggestion is also not bad but in this case I would go for the Blue one the Abus 83WBIP/53. It has a stainless steel shackle and I do have like 5 of them here. International shipping is no problem 🙁happy):

A nice padlock Abus made there!

Adrian

Pschiffe

Adrian Weber wrote
Anchor Las is a very decent company from Sweden. Your suggestion is also not bad but in this case I would go for the Blue one the Abus 83WBIP/53. It has a stainless steel shackle and I do have like 5 of them here. International shipping is no problem 🙁happy):A nice padlock Abus made there! Adrian

I agree Adrian, the 83WIP/53 features a chrome-plated brass body, stainless steel shackle as well as shackle seals; unfortunately that Submariner model is not stocked by Abus USA LLC in Phoenix, Arizona although it is available from other sources; see image attached. Curiously it is offered for sale by the trade in Canada, see image attached:

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

monkey222

Thank you PSchiffe. I did see that model on ebay. Looks like it ships from UK.
My question: shackle dia is 8mm. I am just learning about locks but that seems kind of small compared to master 19 at 17/32 inches. Can you educate me on how an 8mm for this Abus rates in terms if being able to be cut with bolt cutters.

I am new to this forum and just looking at tbe humongous 19 padlock diameter. Is the Abys shackle special metal?

Thanks!

Pschiffe

monkey222 wrote
Thank you PSchiffe. I did see that model on ebay. Looks like it ships from UK.
My question: shackle dia is 8mm. I am just learning about locks but that seems kind of small compared to master 19 at 17/32 inches. Can you educate me on how an 8mm for this Abus rates in terms if being able to be cut with bolt cutters.
I am new to this forum and just looking at tbe humongous 19 padlock diameter. Is the Abys shackle special metal? Thanks!

Good question, the 83WBIB/53 Submariner has an 8mm stainless shackle which is about 5/16″ dia. together with a 57mm body which is about 2″ wide. The 83WP/63 eXtreme has an 11mm hardened special alloy steel shackle which is about 7/16″ dia. with a 65mm body, about 2-½″ wide. Your point is well taken, I’m guessing the 11mm would likely be more resistant to cutting than the 8mm version, regardless of alloy material. I believe Amazon.com and others have 83WBIB/53 that ship from this side of the pond.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

monkey222

Thank you for the feedback. So in terms of bolt cutting, hardened steel or alloy wins over stainless, and bigger dia is better if cutting is the enemy, correct?

oldbiscuit

Monkey, I just want to throw my 2 cents in. The padlock is only as good as what it’s attached to. I don’t know what your locking or how, but if using chain, usually a chain link is fairly easy to cut with a bolt cutter. If your using a hasp, make sure one can’t pry it off the door or frame. Also if using a hasp, how big and strong is it (can it be cut easily) ? I’m always amazed at what some people call secure. Unless you are going to use that #19 in a salty or acidic environment, I believe it will hold up quite nicely,as it’s made for outdoor use as is. Mark

Pschiffe

monkey222 wrote
Thank you for the feedback. So in terms of bolt cutting, hardened steel or alloy wins over stainless, and bigger dia is better if cutting is the enemy, correct?

I’m not sure that hardened steel trumps stainless, I guess that would need to be tested under laboratory conditions. I can tell you that Abus’ resistance to bolt cutters is legendary. I recall some years ago the fire department asking a local locksmith to stop selling them because they couldn’t be cut with their 48″ bolt cutters! I don’t recall which model or shackle diameter they were referring to. I will say I believe that the contemporary Abus 7/16″ diameter is likely more cutter-resistant than Master ’s old 17/32″ as found on their No. 19. My two cents.

Pete Schifferli

[unknown]

oldbiscuit

actually if one wants to get right down to it, most thieves won’t waste their time picking a lock or use a bolt cutter to cut the shackle, but will instead use a pry bar to force an entry. That being said, if your concerned with the shackle hardness, why not go with a lease expensive padlock with a shrouded shackle ? The shroud was designed for that purpose in mind, keeping someone from using a bolt cutter to cut the shackle. Lots of ideas out there for you to think about. Mark:o:

monkey222

You are all so helpful. I very much appreciate it. Funny, in the last 3 weeks, I have spoken to MLock via phone (where I started my quest looking for another 19), at which point I was directed to the shrouded ones, only to find youtubes on how to pick.them in less than a minute.

So I started hasp hunting…not very abundant for 17/32 in local stores. Called Mlock..said they were made in China now and could not attest to their strength or anything else about them. Ok, so I managed to find new old packaging on ebay..706d…made in US.

Changed out as many screws for weird security type ones on door hinges and on cheap pre installed lock.handle.

It is so disparaging to see lock picking youtubes. The inners of locks are amazing pieces of art I think. But seeing security torn apart…wow.
.
Yes, old fashioned pry bars are prob the enemy.

Thank you for Abus fireman story. I shall find one ( Abus or fireman)

Dean Nickel

Abus makes some very good padlocks, chain and hasps. Their chain is hard stuff…. have to use a high speed cutter to even touch it, it laughs at hacksaws. Pick resistance is good. Just my opinion.

monkey222

Hello, Thank you for the Abus information. Sounds like an excellent lock. I am so glad I found this forum!

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