Help to I D this padlock please

Ant

Hello all I have been asked by a collecter to ID a padlock for him, I must admit its one I’d not seen before, but have an inkling that its possibly an old American one? By old I just mean pre or post WWI. I don’t know if it a pin or pipe key type as have not seen it in the flesh yet.
Any help would be most welcome.
Regards to all Ant

Dean Nickel

With wording like that I would guess British or a British Colony.

Tom Gordon

A dragon is a popular symbol in Wales but I don’t think that either the design of the padlock or the wording makes it likely to be British.

oldbiscuit

The top of the padlock reminds me of a Cotterill padlock, but I’ve never seen that design or name on one.

Tom Gordon

The shape of the top is like a cotterill, the hole is like a cotterill or a pancake lock but both of them are sliding shackles rather than hinging and dont have a normal lever mechanism’s key.
I am guessing Indian.

Ant

Just looking at it again. Is the shackle hinge pin being on the left make any difference to being manufactured in Britain or not?

Perhaps it was made here (UK) and shipped to one part of our former empire ,
thanks for all your sugestions so far.
What about the date of manufacture am I about right on that?
Regards to all Anthony

oldbiscuit

Tom, look again at his first picture of the shackle/bail. It looks like it goes all the way around on the right side. I kind of wonder if it doesn’t go straight up like the Cotteral? I wonder if what we assume is a hinge rivet on the top left isn’t just a stop for the opening on the bail? Wish we had a few more pics from different angles. Mark

Tom Gordon

How old are the pancake locks? Did Cotteril copy a bit? Did some colonial copy back again?

oldbiscuit

Tom, I’m not really sure when the first pancake lock was made.I’m sure if one had the time he could do a patent search. However I know that Miller lock had the Champion 6 lever pancake lock listed in their 1885 catalog so I would guess sometime in the early 1880’s🙁think):

Adrian Weber

I still don’t have a pancake lock yet… They are kinda cheap on ebay though but I always miss to bid 🙁think):

Tom Gordon

please send me 1 pence/1 cent for each time that you use this link:-
www.esnipe.com

Adrian Weber

These agents are forbidden here in Germany and I never cheat, but thanks anyway 🙂
I don’t like unfair auctions

Tom Gordon

I never cheat.
I would not use esnipe if it was cheating.
It is a computer which you can programme to reliably enter your bid for you.
Ebay do not like esnipe because, on average, the prices acheived are lower. That is why you should use it.
The reason that it achieves lower prices ON AVERAGE is that many bidders do not put their maximum bid UNTIL someone else bids against them. Esnipe allows you to reliably place your bid at the last second which does not allow other bidders to think again before perhaps putting a higher did in. If the other bidders thought about what their maximum bid should be and entered it to start with, then esnipe would have no function. It only gives you an advantage over bidders who do not honestly initially bid their maximum amount. Ebay will only reach that maximum bid if other people bid against them but bidding at the last moment is not cheating.
I know that Germans love a good rule but I do wonder if it is really illegal or whether ebay have conned you.

Ant

Since my first posting Ive had a chance to look at the padlock in the flesh and I find that the shackle is of the pullout question mark shape (like the Cottrills) and not a hinged shackle at all also the key apears to be a flat type with a milleded slot enabling it to enter the key way. It now up for sale on a well known internet act6ion site so I won’t get a chance to make a key to it. See attached Pictures.
Regards Ant

Ant

As you can all see now that spelling is just not my forte and as I can’t edit the post The part that is confusing should read “milled slot”

Tom Gordon

Very unusually, it appears to have a key and action similar to a dutch (french) latch.

Ant

Hi Tom Can you point me in the direction of any sites re the Dutch French latch key style? As its one Ive not come across before. So does this mean then that it could have been made in the fomer British empire perhaps.
Regards Ant

Adrian Weber

Tom… What you have explained is totally right and I agree with but let’s make up another example. There is an interesting padlock on ebay. I would like to buy it so I decide to go with it; I try to place a bid in the last 2-5 seconds which is pretty close to the end. How come that in the last 0.5 seconds (or less) someone places a bid which is just a few bugs beyond mine? I am just saying that this is not fair, because NO normal being is able to bid in the last 0.5 seconds or less. And this is simply what these tools do; they give an advantage you normally could not have because you are not superman. Of course I could have raised my bet but how the hell I am supposed to raise my bet in 0.1 - 0.3 seconds? I simply can’t. That is why don’t think that this kinda tool helps you to save money it helps you to get fooled by others which play an unfair game. This has nothing to do where you live it just has to do with fair play.

And that’s what I call unfair and unfair equals cheating. Got my point?

I have just bought a very rare book written by Julius Hoch from 1922 and I am glad that I was able to buy it in Switzerland for around 50 bugs because on ebay it would have probably been around 300.

Tom Gordon

Ant wrote
Hi Tom Can you point me in the direction of any sites re the Dutch French latch key style? As its one Ive not come across before. So does this mean then that it could have been made in the fomer British empire perhaps.
Regards Ant

http://www.oldlockandkeyco.co.uk/oppenkey.jpg

http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/1162-quot-Monestary-quot-Key-Fake-or-real

———- Post added at 06:43 PM ———- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ———-

If you put your maximum bid on ebay direct, then that maximum bid will not be activated unless someone else bids against you.
If you bid £100 on an item which is at £1 then your bid will show as £2. If someone else then puts a £10 bid on, your bid will show as £11. Unless someone else puts a £99 bid on, your £100 bid will never be fully used.
It doesnt matter when other people put their bid in (even1/2 second before the end).
If you have bid higher, then you will win the auction. If you have bid much more than anyone else, then you will not have to pay your highest bid -only £1 more than the other bidders.

dicey wrote
Tom… What you have explained is totally right and I agree with but let’s make up another example. There is an interesting padlock on ebay. I would like to buy it so I decide to go with it; I try to place a bid in the last 2-5 seconds which is pretty close to the end. How come that in the last 0.5 seconds (or less) someone places a bid which is just a few bugs beyond mine? I am just saying that this is not fair, because NO normal being is able to bid in the last 0.5 seconds or less. And this is simply what these tools do; they give an advantage you normally could not have because you are not superman. Of course I could have raised my bet but how the hell I am supposed to raise my bet in 0.1 - 0.3 seconds? I simply can’t. That is why don’t think that this kinda tool helps you to save money it helps you to get fooled by others which play an unfair game. This has nothing to do where you live it just has to do with fair play.

And that’s what I call unfair and unfair equals cheating. Got my point?

I have just bought a very rare book written by Julius Hoch from 1922 and I am glad that I was able to buy it in Switzerland for around 50 bugs because on ebay it would have probably been around 300.

[unknown] [unknown]

oldbiscuit

Dicey, another reason for the .5 sec bid could be that several people place bids at the same time in the final seconds of the auction. even with high speed connections it takes a certain amount of time for the results to get posted. If two or more people bid the same high amount at the last second, ebays computers will calculate which came in first, even if it’s micro seconds apart, but when you look at the bid results you will see those same 2 or more bidders with the same bid at the same time. Does that make sense?