Wooden Vault

wylk

I found two unexpected patents that belonged to Mosler. They are both for modular vault panels, made from wood. The reasoning behind these is that a vault only needs to resist attack for a certain time, especially in a properly alarmed and surveilled location. In some cases the vault is a temporary structure and needs to be assembled and taken down without heavy equipment. The patents also discuss weight restrictions in tall buildings. I can imagine these could be useful at some conventions such as coin collectors, where rapid assembly and disassembly would be nice.

The basic idea is to manufacture panels from wood, along with other materials such as hardened nails, to deter attacks from drills. Wood will also resist torch attacks for a short time, enough to obtain certain industry ratings.

Patents: US 5,257,583 (filed in 1992) and US 5,469,796 (filed in 1993). The both reference US 4,918,900 (LeFebure, 1989) and there are no doubt other relevant patents.

Has anybody seen a wooden vault, or worked with one? Within narrow parameters it might be a reasonable idea.

Cepasaccus

I have heard that there are current low-grade certified wall panels for vaults, which are mostly steel sheet covered particle boards. I think these were made by ISS. A good binder could probably improve the security, but my guess is these are standard particle boards for price reasons.

RU2466260C1 and RU2543416C2 are patents from Promet. Both have wood containing layers. They are in Russian and google translates these layers as “plywood”, but they might also be particle boards. There are videos on the internet, which show people ripping open a Promet safe and which show clearly the wall structure of the patent RU2466260C1.

Gary Stephenson

I have come across vaults with wood built into the barrier of the panels as part of the barrier, Collier springs to mind as one of them, but not where the wood was actually visible without penetrating the panels.

Cepasaccus

The patents above look like they do not have visible wood.

This photo is from a safe tech site. Looks like the second Promet patent. Plywood with foam?

Cepasaccus

This safe looks like an S2 rated SB600 with

Thickness of door – 30 mm
Double-wall construction.

safeman

wylk wrote
Has anybody seen a wooden vault, or worked with one? Within narrow parameters it might be a reasonable idea.

/QUOTE]
John Tann produced a wooden Modular Vault which was tested by the UL under UL608 to Class 2 (1 hour).
Not sure of the actual date but this must have been just before I retired in 1990. I was heavily involved in the in-house testing prior to submission and later produced a video showing the UL test team operating on a panel with their heavy oxy-fuel straight -line nozzle cutter, and road breaker with the asbestos clad torch man being constantly hosed down.
I will not go into the construction except to say that the steel outer enclosed planks of hardwood with inter-layers of expanded metal and bituminous material heavily nailed to each other.
The in-house testing included a 12″ core drill and Thermic Lance of which the UL torch is a reasonable substitute when used with a fluxing rod.

[unknown]

safeman

safeman wrote
wylk wrote
Has anybody seen a wooden vault, or worked with one? Within narrow parameters it might be a reasonable idea.

/QUOTE]
John Tann produced a wooden Modular Vault which was tested by the UL under UL608 to Class 2 (1 hour).

For the benefit for those less familiar with the UL 608, a failure is described as a Manhole of 96 sq.ins. through a panel or between a joint of two panels. This could be a circular hole of 11″dia. an isosceles triangle, or a rectangle with a minimum dimension of 6″.

[unknown] [unknown]

Cepasaccus

In case someone doesn’t know this: UL standards can be viewed with a UL account online in a tiny, but readable version.

it is strange that the thermal lance is not part of the tool set for vaults.

safeman

Cepasaccus wrote
In case someone doesn’t know this: UL standards can be viewed with a UL account online in a tiny, but readable version.

it is strange that the thermal lance is not part of the tool set for vaults.

The Packed Lance in called a Burning Bar in the US as you know but I wasn’t aware that it is not included in the tool list. It is not really suitable for this type of test because of the high RU penalty, not for the lance, but for the huge amount of oxygen consumed. At least 6 cylinders linked together would be required for 30 minutes work. As it’s main function is hole boring it becomes very greedy when opening up to manhole size.
The subject of this test is a slab of Anti-Thermic door material with the protective shield pre-drilled as a template. The oxygen was from a large horizontal lorry mounted tank but had to be abandoned after 7 lances due to hyperthermic effect on the operator.
As mentioned before the UL call their in-line oxy-fuel cutter a Thermal Lance which has a wider range of application than the lance plus operator valve control which on the lance is either on or off.
In the above test a second operator prepared a new lance for instant change-over which otherwise would allow the burn to lose flow. Vast amounts of smoke created.

The UL torch man has an air supply to his suit as well as being hosed down when required and is free to apply the burn from any angle.

[unknown]

Redoubt

Great pictures and information as always Safeman.

Just out of interest Safeman, is the safe in the last picture you posted an ATM?

Back 20 + years ago I seem to remember working on ATM’s of a very similar design.

safeman

Redoubt wrote
Great pictures and information as always Safeman.

Just out of interest Safeman, is the safe in the last picture you posted an ATM?

Back 20 + years ago I seem to remember working on ATM’s of a very similar design.

Yes Redoubt, it’s a Tann Level 2 ATM being tested back in about 1990. TRTL-30
to allow a proportion of the currency to be fished out using wires, hooks, pry-bars and hacksaw blades.
No comment. Different strokes for different folks.

[unknown]

Gary Stephenson

This was an attacked Chubb Duoguard safe that I had to open, you can see the wood inside, took me by surprise seeing this on a modern safe.

Cepasaccus

A grade 2? I have heard their hardplate is quite good.

Btw. the Burg-Wächter Combi-Line has a particle board mounted to the front of the door covered only with paint. It is S2 and LFS 30P rated. My guess is the particle board is there to achieve the LFS 30P rating.

Gary Stephenson

Grade 1, but the grade 2 and 3 proguards look the same. yes the hardplate, Materoc I think, is just the only thing that is good about them.

Redoubt

Hi Safeman

With regard to UL using the 180 degree inline oxy cutter, how does using a fluxing rod make it similar to a lance.

Does the fluxing rod melt at a higher temperature, when combined with the oxy cutter?

Thanks in advance.

safeman

Redoubt wrote
Hi Safeman

With regard to UL using the 180 degree inline oxy cutter, how does using a fluxing rod make it similar to a lance.

Does the fluxing rod melt at a higher temperature, when combined with the oxy cutter?

Thanks in advance.

Hello again Redoubt,

It helps to create a slag of iron oxide (liquid rust) which can then be blown away with the cutting oxygen. The U.L. operator is shown with the rod (probably ⅜"mild steel) tucked under his left arm.

An even more effective fluxing rod can be a short length of Packed Lance which draws the similarity even closer. Here torch is being applied to the Wooden Planks which in alternate layers make up the barrier, but they also use it on Reinforced Concrete in doors where the more steel in the mix the better for the penetration.

The temperature of the fluxing rod at the torch is probably the same. Despite the lance tube being packed with welding rods the oxygen flow is unrestrained and colossal which creates the great temperature. Must look it up.

[unknown]

safeman

Apparently the temperature is 2,500°C plus. I should have mentioned that on other than ferrous metals it works by forming a fluid iron silicate slag constantly being blown away by the force of the oxygen.

Redoubt

Fantastic information Safeman.

Much appreciated.