English Tann Fortress.

David Hovey

Was wondering if anyone can decipher the door bolt stamping?

I would like to convert the rating to a UL rating for my customer.

By the brochure description, TL-30×6 ??

TIA

safeman

David Hovey wrote
Was wondering if anyone can decipher the door bolt stamping?

I would like to convert the rating to a UL rating for my customer.

By the brochure description, TL-30×6 ??

TIA

DH

Sorry to take so long in replying David. Can’t be 100% certain but I don’f think the Fortress ever got a TL-30×6. From what I’ve read on the web the dealers in your country have a tendency to use words like ‘potential’ or ‘equivalent’. That’s really not so bad when certain criteria of the UL test like 2 sq.ins and fishing are concerned.

[unknown]

David Hovey

Thank you for your reply. I did find out that a US safe company rated this safe as a TRTL-15×6 equivalent and Jewelers Mutual accept it as an equal.

My question is, this is an English mfg. safe and what ratings do they use, and does it correspond with the doors bolt stamping?

safeman

David Hovey wrote
Thank you for your reply. I did find out that a US safe company rated this safe as a TRTL-15×6 equivalent and Jewelers Mutual accept it as an equal.

My question is, this is an English mfg. safe and what ratings do they use, and does it correspond with the doors bolt stamping?

DH

David,

The British makers don’t rate their safes. They could only aim for a category. The UK Testing Authority the LPCB (Loss Prevention Certification Board) wasn’t set up until the 90’s corresponding to other EU test houses.

The accepted system for Insurers is the publication to members only of the AiS. Association of Insurance Surveyors. Their rating at the time for the Fortress II code SB was £35,000. Their committee were insurance surveyors with experience of safe burglaries in the field.

Hope this helps ….. John.

[unknown]

David Hovey

John,

Interesting! If I understand you correctly, the stamping SB is what I would call a rating being in the US. It’s the end result of a loss value amount put upon by insurance investigators from AIS. Nothing close to the UL TRTL-15-X6

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

safeman

David Hovey wrote
John,

Interesting! If I understand you correctly, the stamping SB is what I would call a rating being in the US. It’s the end result of a loss value amount put upon by insurance investigators from AIS. Nothing close to the UL TRTL-15-X6

David, I will attach Model Codes for the Stratford and Tann safes. These are primarily for factory identification and as an assistance to aid subsequent identification of products which sometimes look almost identical. Only when identified will the Broker or Underwriter apply their own evaluation for rating purposes and find the AiS tables invaluable for this purpose.

I will also attach a small section which shows where the Fortress safes fit and also the Model Code. Note the early date of this particular copy. I retired in 1990 and began to find it difficult to keep in touch.

[ATTACH]22695[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]22696[/ATTACH]

[unknown]

Gary Stephenson

Hiya John, that doc shows all the TS range 1 to 5 referred to as DIAMOND, I thought only the TS5 was referred to as that and the other TSs ie TS3 actually being the model number r name

safeman

Gary Stephenson wrote
Hiya John, that doc shows all the TS range 1 to 5 referred to as DIAMOND, I thought only the TS5 was referred to as that and the other TSs ie TS3 actually being the model number r name

You’re quite correct Gary. I suppose they didn’t know what else to call them - but wrong!

[unknown]

Redoubt

Hi Safeman

Just out of interest, did John Tann UK undertake any in-house testing on any of their range, specifically taking into account the UL ratings, just as as a comparison of how they would end up compared to UL ratings?

safeman

Redoubt wrote
Hi Safeman

Just out of interest, did John Tann UK undertake any in-house testing on any of their range, specifically taking into account the UL ratings, just as as a comparison of how they would end up compared to UL ratings?

Yes Redoubt, Tann had a test facility at the Borehamwood factory where tests were regularly conducted on test panels of new barrier designs plus on samples of all their new products plus the products of some of our competitors, just as Chubb’s R&D did at Wolverhampton.

The only UK made product which could be considered to have been appropriate for UL testing was the Cashier TL15. For the higher grades the products of the Swedish factory were successfully approved.

Tann was probably the foremost UK supplier to the likes of NCR for their ATM security enclosures and with so many failing with the TL15 units, designed and had approved a UL 291 level 2 TL30×6 unit but the end customers didn’t seem to take up on it.

Tann’s R&D convinced the sales deparment of the inadvisability of putting the likes of the Fortress. Bankers, and even Diamond up to the UL for their highest categories. This decision was justified by the huge costs involved and the peculiarity of a fail from 2 sq.in. gap between the door and body. The cost of preventing this would have been a totally unjustified new strengthened frame design and quite unneccessary in the light of real criminal activity.

The centre picture shows part of the road breaker used on the concrete. The third picture is of a Hilti Core drill test at the LPC test centre where I worked briefly after retirement from Tann.

[unknown]

Redoubt

Thanks Safeman

Great information and pictures as always.