chubb safe no32

Gary Stephenson

Would anyone have any info, old brochure or catalogue info on a Chubb safe from 1867 described as a no32 safe, other serial numbers are also described as no32 safe, so I assume this refers to a particular model and size, maybe like telegraph codewords like ASTUTE to identify a size and model.

Huw Eastwood

Gary when I posted an unusual Queen Vic St Chubb on wheels a while back I think it was Patent who helped a lot with old brochures. Might be worth sending him a PM as I don’t think he’s on very often.

Remember seeing quite a few old St. Paul’s churchyard single door single lock versions like your picture with those ‘pear’ shape escutcheons they had some of the fiercest hardplates and the matrix of hard dowels driven into the outer plate.
One single locking version imprinted in my mind was locked no key and externally identical to the others with what seemed the same curtained powder proof lock but was actually reversed with the key turning anti clockwise to unlock, what a nightmare that was…Sorry no help with the no32 reference though!

safeman

Gary Stephenson wrote
Would anyone have any info, old brochure or catalogue info on a Chubb safe from 1867 described as a no32 safe, other serial numbers are also described as no32 safe, so I assume this refers to a particular model and size, maybe like telegraph codewords like ASTUTE to identify a size and model.

No joy Gary Nothing this early. 1910 Catalogue shows a 4 corner bent model with this number but the double-door versions are from 39 to 44 from memory.

There was a very old Chubb in the Tann Museum with a New Patent lock no.114303 from around 1837 as described below.

Sorry nothing more.

[unknown]

safeman

Gary Stephenson

Many thanks, that brochure picture is interesting with the asbestos inner door and the option of diagonal bolts. I was expecting a model type on the records like Patent for example, so it took me by surprise when it just had a number as an identifier. If I find anything else out I will let you know. Will try to PM patent.

Chubby

I hadn’t realised how expensive those Chubbs were. Those were enormous sums in those days.

Paul Prescott

The early London - Melbourne invoices refer to models by number like that.

It’s great to have the records showing the cost of manufacture + 20 % markup !

Chubby

In 1892 (if memory serves me correctly) Conan Doyle wrote “The Copper Beeches”. In that he discusses salaries given to governesses. He states that an employer could have his pick if he were to offer as much as 40 pounds a year. Gives you some idea what you could get for your money.

I know that that is somewhat earlier than the date on that brochure, but there was very little inflation prior to WW1.

safeman

Gary Stephenson wrote
Many thanks, that brochure picture is interesting with the asbestos inner door and the option of diagonal bolts. I was expecting a model type on the records like Patent for example, so it took me by surprise when it just had a number as an identifier. If I find anything else out I will let you know. Will try to PM patent.

Gary, some safemakers like Edw.Tann & Sons did not give their products names until near the turn of the Century. Rather their main lines were called simply No.1, No.2 etc. changing to List 2 List 3 etc around 1900, when names such as Excelsior, Household, Ledger came into use.

As far as I can establish Chubb safes in the 19th Century went by titles like Chubb New Patent or Chubb Fire Patent. Here are some old illustrations from my archive.

At the Great Exhibition of 1851 among many items they displayed their Banker’s Safe lock based on their Improved Patent of 1824 which secured the main boltwork either as illustrated or as part of a wheel lock for multi-bolt systems.

[unknown]

Gary Stephenson

Thanks for those, the 412 serial number was a plain safe and 3 were made under that serial number.

safeman

Gary Stephenson wrote
Thanks for those, the 412 serial number was a plain safe and 3 were made under that serial number.

Gary,

You appear to have the old safe number records for Chubb and Tann. Do you by any chance have similar records for Chatwood?

A few years ago I found a Chatwood Special No. S-52570 as illustrated which was part of an order for an old Scottish Bank. These had 10″ protective thickness in doors and bodies.

I tried Gunnebo many times for information on the specification but neither Mary or Tom Rochford would respond despite my having provided Chubb with reciprocal Tann safe details over many years.

[unknown]

Tom Gordon

safeman wrote
Gary,

A few years ago I found a Chatwood Special No. S-52570 as illustrated which was part of an order for an old Scottish Bank. These had 10″ protective thickness in doors and bodies.

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That wouldnt have been County Bank would it?

[unknown]

Cepasaccus

Gary, do you know what locks that has?

safeman

Tom Gordon wrote
That wouldn’t have been County Bank would it?

Tom,

I don’t know of any County Bank in Scotland. When I posted that I couldn’t remember what Chubb’s records originally stated way back when I first acquired these safes in the mid 70’s but I now remember the name of the Commercial Bank of Scotland which merged with the National Bank of Scotland and which finished up in the Royal Bank of Scotland who found some of these safes surplus to requirements.

Cepasaccus, from distant memory they were 12 lever locks.

The Royal Bank still have at least one Chatwood Special Diamond which also has the radiussed corners on the doors but only about half the protective barrier thickness.

[unknown]

Gary Stephenson

I didn’t have the Tann records, they binned them before I could copy them unfortunately, because of this since Mary left I had been pestering them for the records on microfiche to ensure they didn’t also get slung. Whilst down on some training recently I managed to find them and borrow with the intention of copying them, but unfortunately they have now taken them back.
there were hobbs hart, chatwood, milner and chubb records. I will see if I can find anything out from your serial number.

Tom Gordon

Gary Stephenson wrote
I didn’t have the Tann records, they binned them before I could copy them unfortunately, because of this since Mary left I had been pestering them for the records on microfiche to ensure they didn’t also get slung. Whilst down on some training recently I managed to find them and borrow with the intention of copying them, but unfortunately they have now taken them back.
there were hobbs hart, chatwood, milner and chubb records. I will see if I can find anything out from your serial number.

You are right it was “Commercial” not “County” but the relevant thing was that it started with a “c” because I think that is a “CB” Chatwood - 7 tonnes and 15 inch doors - do you still have it? Made about 1933

[unknown]

Huw Eastwood

I never tire of seeing those CB Quality Chatwoods. Safeman I think we owe yourself for most and probably all of the pictures ever released of those. Had you not posted that ‘very special chatwood’ thread years ago it would, for me, have forever remained just a listing in the gradings tables of your Tann safe book. To actually see the photos is amazing, nothing even comes close.

safeman

Tom Gordon wrote
You are right it was “Commercial” not “County” but the relevant thing was that it started with a “c” because I think that is a “CB” Chatwood - 7 tonnes and 15 inch doors - do you still have it? Made about 1933

Sadly Tom this safe only passed through my hands at John Tann (Scotland) in the 1970’s. At the time I had no interest from an archaeological point of view in the safe and it was sold on.

It wasn’t until 40 years later when I was researching for my websites that I decided to try and find one. I had a vague recollection of a Glasgow Cash & Carry from which starting point I eventually traced this safe and with much difficulty obtained permission to photograph it providing all background detail was removed. I did note the serial number though.

This is a picture of another which is still in a Bank and too difficult to remove without part demolition! Worn pivots have caused serious binding of the door as can be seen from some rough remedial work. Who would ever have thought that safe doors required lubrication?

[unknown]

safeman

Huw Eastwood wrote
I never tire of seeing those CB Quality Chatwoods. Safeman I think we owe yourself for most and probably all of the pictures ever released of those. Had you not posted that ‘very special chatwood’ thread years ago it would, for me, have forever remained just a listing in the gradings tables of your Tann safe book. To actually see the photos is amazing, nothing even comes close.

Thank you for your kind words Huw.

I am a rubbish researcher as I have no filing system or references but fortunately my memory keeps going. This reminds me that I have a piece on the Special Diamond specification which is from the Chapter on my Safeman website called Scrapbook, and covers the Chatwood range.

I’ve just noticed it has the wrong heading - Treasury not Diamond.

Regrettably the section following which was intended to list all the Milner products has hit a major problem transferring it to the web which I hope to tackle when I can replace my web software.

[unknown]

safeman

Gary Stephenson wrote
I didn’t have the Tann records, they binned them before I could copy them unfortunately, because of this since Mary left I had been pestering them for the records on microfiche to ensure they didn’t also get slung. Whilst down on some training recently I managed to find them and borrow with the intention of copying them, but unfortunately they have now taken them back.
there were hobbs hart, chatwood, milner and chubb records. I will see if I can find anything out from your serial number.

Gary, it would be great if you could find out any more on this safe, and I’m wondering if at the same time you could see what the records say about S-51497 which I’m assuming is the Special Diamond here -

[unknown]