Moving safes and a bonus find

Gary Stephenson · 2017-04-25T23:56:17+00:00

There were some old safes in a run down part of a new house I am doing up and I have been moving them for the last couple of days to somewhere that I can try to get them back into service, the largest one was a Chubb double door unit that probably weighs 3 tons and I have managed to move it about 70 yards on my own, so chuffed with that. I had freed up one of the doors, but the other one was seized and rusted shut. when I finally got it opened the locks from the old Chatwood, including a Sam lock were hiding inside there.

Huw Eastwood

Tom beat me to it there- couldn’t find a useable picture of that curved style Chatwood drop handle, most seem to be the rectangular shaped straight sided ones.
That curvy style drop and those distinctive hinges always seemed like blatant copies of Chatwoods design.

Chubby

You can see why the merger made such startlingly good safes.

Tom Gordon

You can see why the merger made such startlingly good safes.

🙁clap):

safeman

Chubby wrote
Which model of the old heavy banded Milners was it that had the drop down bolt throwing handle? It looked sort of like a stirrup.

Chubby, I’ve just been catching up with things after 2 weeks in hospital without wi-fi. This is one of the very earliest of Thos. Milner’s safes with the single keyway of the Thos.Turner detector lock and the drop handle to which you referred. Date approximately 1850. Never seen one of a later date.

Am puzzled by Huw’s photograph of what looks identical to a Chatwood Standard Quality but with a Milner escutcheon. Perhaps the anaesthetic hasn’t worn off yet.

[unknown]

Tom Gordon

safeman wrote
Chubby, I’ve just been catching up with things after 2 weeks in hospital without wi-fi. This is one of the very earliest of Thos. Milner’s safes with the single keyway of the Thos.Turner detector lock and the drop handle to which you referred. Date approximately 1850. Never seen one of a later date.

Am puzzled by Huw’s photograph of what looks identical to a Chatwood Standard Quality but with a Milner escutcheon. Perhaps the anaesthetic hasn’t worn off yet.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]17740[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17741[/ATTACH]

Hmmm -that drop handle doesnt look like it really fits the rose while the escutcheon doesnt look as though it is screwed on quite straight…or is it just my eyes?

[unknown]

safeman

Tom Gordon wrote
Hmmm -that drop handle doesnt look like it really fits the rose while the escutcheon doesnt look as though it is screwed on quite straight…or is it just my eyes?

I imagine that this might only be a pull handle. To what escutcheon do you refer?

[unknown]

Tom Gordon

safeman wrote
I imagine that this might only be a pull handle. To what escutcheon do you refer?

Huw’s post #18

[unknown]

Gary Stephenson

safeman wrote
Gary, your Milner dates from between 1890 and 1915 at which time they changed to round boltwork (Improved Patent). The letter prefix of the serial number will confirm the actual year.

The body plate thickness in this size is ¼". Incidentally, the Wedge Guards as fitted to Milner and many other makes was the invention of a Manchester policeman after the Cornhill Robbery in 1865 but the Patent initially taken out by Milner was never pursued.

Cheers, the lock number was
I
Y928
if that narrows it down further.

[unknown]

safeman

Gary Stephenson wrote
Cheers, the lock number was
I
Y928
if that narrows it down further.

Gary, Milner prefix ‘Y’ was made in 1913.

1920 catalogue.

[unknown]

Chubby

Of course there is no guarantee that it is the original lock.

Gary Stephenson

The fire and backpan had been removed and refitted at some time prior to me opening and stripping down the safe, but I am confident this was the original lock to the safe.
Thanks for the dating info safeman, still more secure than a lot of the modern rubbish made nowadays.

Chubby

The reason I mentioned that is that I, and several others whom I know, would salvage locks from common models of safes. Keys are then cut for these at quiet times. Then when rekeying a safe for a customer is simply a case of removing his original lock and replacing it with an identical model which has been ready cleaned, serviced and keyed.

Huw Eastwood

Chubby, I think everyone in the trade does similar with locks pre-done to save time tbh, but how many ‘identical’ pre-done Milners did you hold in order to guarantee a perfect simple swap every time? We used to see enough dimensional variations on the 6-point fixings and the keyways which were minute but often enough to frustrate a time saving swap on site.

Chubby

Fair comment.

I remember reading in George Price’s book how he explained about standardising dimensions. It seems that it just didn’t happen. It seems strange to modern thinking.

Gary Stephenson

Agree with Huw on the Milners ,not often I have replaced locks rather than rekeyed them, but when I have, they have been just different enough to be a pain. I would normally only go to the bother nowadays if it was to get a collectable lock off.

carolpalmer

Doug MacQueen wrote
Gary, it’s not what is written on the van that counts, it’s how it it tracks down the road after being used with a griphoist in moving a 3 ton safe uphill.

true. Agree with what you said. Provided be on the safe side while moving difficult and heavy safes.

[unknown]

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