Why 3 Doors/Compartments?

bighammer

I was browsing a shop with an assortment of items, and spotted this safe. Upper 2 doors open, but lower locked and no combo. It’s sort of an interesting piece, and maybe I’m sort of turning into a collector, since I can’t seem to get it out of my mind. I was in a bit of a hurry, so I didn’t look at it carefully, but any info or ideas of its purpose would be helpful.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UlEiTAYjqBI/V4BtJBKb0HI/AAAAAAAABNI/Mu5TJx7CB5cjUBKEr3OlzePZzYK2ckW4wCL0B/w1452-h816-no/IMG_20160708_151217539.jpg

Chubby

3 compartments is because you don’t always want everybody to have access to everything.

bighammer

I was wondering if it might have been for a particular type of business, etc. I didn’t see any markings about what manufacturer.

I’m sort of wanting to go back when I have more time to get a better look at its condition. The car jack under the corner of it makes me wonder….

Huw Eastwood

My guess is that the bottom unit will be a heavier and higher grade than the top two, allowing for lower value ‘float’ or stock in the two top units and the main bulk takings in the bottom. Likely to be different staff access to top two doors but only manager or owner has access to bottom. Are there any sort of deposit apertures inside either of the two top units to post stuff into the bottom safe?

Assuming the crane hinge on the bottom door isn’t just for show the door is likely to be thicker and perhaps stepped in construction, although looking at the supporting carriages they don’t look to be very heavy duty.

wylk

For future reference in case the image disappears from Google –

00247

Nice safe! I’d be on it faster than stink, despite the jack suggesting a wheel problem. That would give a guy a huge bargaining chip.

bighammer

00247 wrote
Nice safe! I’d be on it faster than stink, despite the jack suggesting a wheel problem. That would give a guy a huge bargaining chip.

Any guess what something like that is worth, or what I should pay for it? Wheels appear to be intact, just not a level floor. I’m guessing the jack is trying to keep it from rockin’ & rollin’ with the Victrola right next to it.

[unknown]

kwoswalt99

It looks like a heavy duty icebox.🙁rofl):

bighammer

kwoswalt99 wrote
It looks like a heavy duty icebox.🙁rofl):

It does, but with a combination dial. It’s still sort of cool looking. Sort of a different looking safe with the exterior hardware & links. It seems to be more of a decorative thing, since they don’t lock. (I don’t think) It’s a more typical locking bolt inside the door edge that takes care of that.

[unknown]

wylk

bighammer wrote
It seems to be more of a decorative thing, since they don’t lock. (I don’t think)

You are talking about what is called the pressure system or pressure bars. These are used to force the door into the frame very tightly before locking. This was popular for a long time as a deterrent against burglars dripping nitroglycerine into gaps between the door and frame in the hope of blowing the door open. On good safe and vault doors it even made the door water tight as protection against flooding.

[unknown]

bighammer

Aha, very cool. So there is a purpose. Thanks for that info.

Was it a short-lived feature or novelty? I haven’t seen many safes that have them.

wylk

bighammer wrote
Was it a short-lived feature or novelty? I haven’t seen many safes that have them.

I don’t have a good idea of when pressure bars were popular on safes but I think it was a fairly long time. They mostly appeared on “bankers’ safes” which were largely for burglar protection rather than fire. Here’s a Diebold ad from 1879 –

Pressure systems were very common on vault doors until, perhaps, around the 1960s I think.

[unknown]

bighammer

That seems to fit. I was a little surprised when I looked inside this one, that it was just a layer of steel, and not the huge, thick walls of something made to withstand heat. It gives a lot more space inside with thinner walls.

bighammer

I might go take another look at it. They’re asking $800 for it, and I really don’t need another safe. Looking is free, right? 🙁nod):

bighammer

I went back again today and got more info. It was in a local hotel, and he got it during their renovation. He showed me the card with combinations and I tried them out. There is a 3 number combo written out for the lower compartment, but I can feel that it has 4 wheels, so something didn’t quite make it onto paper.

It’s tagged at $850, but he said he could let it go for $700. Wife says get it. She’s thinking it would be nice in the kitchen, maybe with a butcher block top on it. It’s 24″ × 30″ × 35″ so it would fit in well.

Oh, it DOES have a wheel problem– There aren’t any. 🙁sweat): It’s sitting on a mover’s dolly. I also noticed it’s missing a “finial” on the right door. (it’s really just an extra tall acorn nut.

bighammer

Chubby

Why are American safes generally on wheels? Doesn’t the mobility compromise security? In UK the general rule of thumb is that a safe weighing under a ton should actually be anchored to the floor.

Huw Eastwood

Chubby wrote
Why are American safes generally on wheels? Doesn’t the mobility compromise security? In UK the general rule of thumb is that a safe weighing under a ton should actually be anchored to the floor.

The wheels on safes subject was brought up back in this thread, I think it’s one of those subjects that will always divide opinions.

http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/3780-Chubb-Mystery-Safe-Old-Queen-Vic-Street-on-castorsh

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

Throughout U.S. history going all the way back to the hobnail safes of the early 1800’s, fire safes are generally on wheels, except for little portable ones. On straight burglary chests, you do see wheels on them in the latter 1800’s and early 1900’s, but these chests generally do weigh over a ton and greater. Having been on my share of safe moves, for the most part having wheels only helps on smooth hard floors. Once you are beyond that point, they don’t help much. Here the bolt down weight on burglary safes is under 750 lbs. I don’t hear of safes being stolen as much as when I started out in the 70’s, and it does seem to have been even more popular before that, but then again so was safecracking. One example I remember reading about was a large heavy fire safe on wheels being pulled through the wall of a building. However it was on the second floor so the wheels didn’t help when it hit the ground and was pulled down the road on its back. Apparently it was not too difficult to follow the scrape marks on that one. Another example, much more recent and not far from me was where a 4,000 lbs. modern jewelers safe (no wheels) was stolen from the store. I do have an alibi.

T Davison

The safe in question is a Dieblod made around Feb 1 1870 to May 23 1871. The anit-dynamte was made 1885. The dating is done on the lock that I see in the safes. This could have been used inside a bank vault or larger safe as a compartment dividers.
There could be two Peerless models lock used.
1 Anit-Dynamte with this lock you can feel a gear train and hear the gears of the offset system.
2 This lock feels like a normal combo lock with out the gear train feel and sound.
Both of these locks where made around the same time.