Restoration of a Diebold Banker's safe style "E"

Jerzy

I recently acquired a Diebold safe with a time-lock door and two small combination vaults inside. I presume the safe dates from about the 1890’s. All mechanical components including the triple timer, work perfectly. The exterior is obviously quite aged but the original pin-striping and gold leaf is still quite beautiful. My question is: is restoration generally recommended, or is the original patina a more desirable look to collectors, and for general value.

00247

Please post a picture. If the lettering and striping are quite good I would leave it as is unless the rest of the paint is terrible. Nice originals are hard to find. It can take a lot of effort and money to restore one to high standards and few can match the nostalgic aura of an original.

Jerzy

Yes, the majority of the paint is quite bad. I will post some pictures when I figure out how. Seems the resolution is too high.
If I decide to restore, I intend to be as accurate as possible to it’s period appearance. Nothing worse than a super shiny antique in modern urethane paints. I intend to use acrylic lacquer, which even though newer than the period, and now difficult to come by, will, I think give the best results. I also intend to use a talented pinstripe artist.
Does anyone know what material was used for the door seals on these old safes?
Mostly, I need to find a nickel plating outfit that knows how to replicate and etch the elaborate patterns on some of the brackets and main door wheel.

Jerzy

here are some pictures

Jerzy

A few more pictures

00247

Nice safe! Thanks for sharing pictures.

I would go with a single stage acrylic enamel instead of lacquer. That way you can add a hardener and the paint will be much more durable than a lacquer which tends to be more brittle. With out a clear it will look nearly identical. It will chemically cure and if you want can be color sanded and buffed to get whatever quality finish you desire. I know what you mean when some safes are buried in clear. I still appreciate them as they are beautiful and there is no better way to protect the art work.

On one of my Moslers the metal was etched and then nickel plated. The nickle plating is quite thin and if your pieces have a heavy etch (texture) I would think it is done the same way. Most good automotive chrome shops also do nickel plating and do nice work, though pricey. Hopefully the inside plating will polish up nicely. That safe will be an enjoyable project.

Just be glad you don’t have any of this…

Jerzy

That’s a good looking cannonball safe door. My problem is not finding plating shops, several can do that for me, as nickel plating is the base coat for chrome, the problem is the etched pattern on the brackets and main door wheel. no one who I have talked to so far, knows the process. Maybe you can recommend a specialist shop were maybe I could send the bright work. If you enlarge the picture of the door wheel and brackets, you can see a fairly complex etching, which I would like to replicate or preserve.

Huw Eastwood

Jerzy that’s a beautiful old Diebold not half as bad as it was sounding. To me it’s a no-brainer- leave as is, but then it’s the old saying ‘beauty is in the eye of the beholder’, so I guess its only you who can make the ultimate decision.
It looks a nice used but balanced condition, which to me at least would be a shame to remove- please don’t turn it into something we need Ray Bans or Oakleys to look at!

Jerzy

Thanks, MaxVaultage! That is exactly the kind of opinion that I am looking for.
No, I would never bling it out to look like a modern hot-rod, that is why I am trying for absolute authenticity, and any information in that direction is greatly appreciated.

The type of paint used back then. I am leaning towards acrylic lacquer. I know it’s not the best modern paint, but the closest.(I suspect the old paint contains Lead or Mercury or some other unsavory now banned chemical)
Exact replication of the nickel plating, especially the artistic etching.
The material used for the door gaskets. I think it may be thin leather.
The pin-striping and gold leaf I have already covered, and want it identical.
The faint gold color that is on the folds of the door. Is it paint? is it a dye? is it some other process?
6 The final varnish covering of the whole thing. Was it some kind of shellac or other kind of varnish. There is a distinctly yellowed coating of some kind of clear coat.
These questions I must have answers for, before I would do any work on this safe.
There are modern and cheaper ways to do everything, I know, but this is not the idea behind this project. Authenticity is the word

Jerzy

Does anyone have any ideas / comments, to any of those questions?

Doug MacQueen

I know pretty much nothing about painting, but as far as what was used back in the day, there are other areas in which you could check, such as steam engines, early machine tools, etc. On one of the nickel plating jobs I had done, the plating shop did say there was an older type (color wise?) of nickel plating which they could do. Acid etching is something I have been looking into and may try it out this summer with Matt Lamborn, a safe restoration painter. I don’t remember the gasket material as being like leather unless it was soaked in something first. Hard to the touch, but not so hard I couldn’t dig my fingernail into it. On the varnish, spar varnish would be a possibility.

Jerzy

Thank you for the info. All great help. I will continue with my research in those areas.

00247

You might enjoy these pictures on Mark Frank’s wonderful site…

http://www.my-time-machines.net/diebold_3_movements.htm

Brian Smith

Restored one of these once. The seal material is heavy red felt normally. For body work, the filler was water putty. If you go to repaint this thing it has to all come off and be refilled with Bondo. The old stuff will absorb any new finish, and every crack will show, if not immediately, soon. Take no short cuts. The primed wheel carriages make it look funky, so you will have to at least replicate the finish there. The right plater can strip the old off and redo the plating, keeping the etched areas like original. DON’T let them sand or buff it off! Nickel and satin nickel are the best bet, chrome is too automotive. Quick-dry enamel is the closest you will come to original finish. All that artwork is done by hand, find a good pin stripe artist, and use lacquer thinner to take that modern latex off without ruining the original finish… usually. Have fun!

Jerzy

Thanks Brian, that is all great information. I am taking notes. I have found a talented pinstripe artist, who has taken tracings and many photos, to replicate all detail exactly. I presume that “dustless” blasting, using glass media and water vapor is as good a way as any to blast this safe clean? (after removing all mechanical and shiny parts, of course).

Brian Smith

Re; blasting, dustless is best for the blaster & the environment. It does not mean much for the blastee but $. Make sure the doer is experienced. Like power-washing in the wrong hands can put holes and dents where the were not before.
Do it before doing service to the hinges and moving parts, then take EVERYTHING apart, clean & lube. There will be wear, old grease, and blast SAND in every possible gap. Lucky with this safe (outer door at least) nothing goes through the door, but pull, clean, & lube all lock spindles & handle arbors. Short cuts only bring regrets.

Huntlocks

Corr, you colonials have some brilliant and interesting safes to play with - even if they do all look like railway trucks from below.

Jerzy

Yes indeed. Being a former colonial myself, when I first saw this safe, I had to have it for it’s shear beauty; it is like a fine sculpture and mechanical marvel at the same time. Even before restoration it has pride of place in the living room.

Jerzy

Some of you may be interested in the progress of this project. I took all the moving parts and locking mechanism off and cleaned and polished everything. The body of the safe was then blasted clean, to bare metal. I can just hear all you purists scream, however, the paint was just too far gone. I then filled most imperfections with bondo and primed the whole thing. About 5 coats, wet flatting between each coat. Then the top coat, about three. The color of the base coat looks a bit like primer, but it is actually very close to the original. After some research, I ordered some red felt for the door seals. The safe is now at the artist’s studio, awaiting the gold stripes, and all the filigree and original wording. The finished product will be, hopefully, just like the original, 120 years ago. Pictures to follow.

Jerzy

Here are some pictures, progress so far.