Superb patina on Mosler cannonball

Huw Eastwood

Always love seeing any antique safe in its used ‘as is’ condition, as the over-restored and blinged-out examples with ten coats of lacquer make me cringe.
This original Mosler is as good as it gets- a beautiful safe with a finish and patina that for me at least, is perfection- priceless!

00247

That is a great original cannonball. Unfortunately, finding one in that condition is very rare. I recently posted a picture of a York/Ely Norris cannonball that is in beautiful original condition and if I had scored it I would leave it as is. Guess I’ll add it here too.

Much like old cars there is junk, original, restored, and over restored. They are even building fiberglass cars that are painted to look rusty with painted dust and bird crap to make them look like fresh barn discoveries. Go figure…

Most safes are in tough shape. At best they have a brush paint job at worst a pile of rust and need some serious TLC. Having painted all of my life I can appreciate the beautiful safes like the ones that come out of Matt’s Safe Restorations, especially when the graphics are true to the original. Why not bring them up to modern paint standards? Anything less and most people will find fault with them.

But I can see your point. When I did my Victor I tried to stay as true to the original as possible. I stayed with a single stage paint, hand striping and lettering, nickel plating, and exact duplication of the design in the plating. I couldn’t bring myself to make it as wavy as Victor did so it is smooth, straight and shiny. I think I found a happy medium. I couldn’t live with that much patina! 🙁giggle):

How I found it.

After a lot of work and money.

Safeone

00247 wrote
That is a great original cannonball. Unfortunately, finding one in that condition is very rare. I recently posted a picture of a York/Ely Norris cannonball that is in beautiful original condition and if I had scored it I would leave it as is. Guess I’ll add it here too.

Much like old cars there is junk, original, restored, and over restored. They are even building fiberglass cars that are painted to look rusty with painted dust and bird crap to make them look like fresh barn discoveries. Go figure…

Most safes are in tough shape. At best they have a brush paint job at worst a pile of rust and need some serious TLC. Having painted all of my life I can appreciate the beautiful safes like the ones that come out of Matt’s Safe Restorations, especially when the graphics are true to the original. Why not bring them up to modern paint standards? Anything less and most people will find fault with them.

But I can see your point. When I did my Victor I tried to stay as true to the original as possible. I stayed with a single stage paint, hand striping and lettering, nickel plating, and exact duplication of the design in the plating. I couldn’t bring myself to make it as wavy as Victor did so it is smooth, straight and shiny. I think I found a happy medium. I couldn’t live with that much patina! 🙁giggle):

How I found it.

After a lot of work and money.

WOW !!!!!!!! I just love the Dodge Viper, pity that old safe is blocking the view :-)

Joking apart that safe is stunning and a credit to your obvious skills.

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

Max, here is one that I found in Summerfield, OH when I was actively searching out Corliss safes. This one has had a hard life, spending many decades literally as a bump in the road, where it was buried after falling off the truck as it was being moved from the bank. Apparently the movers didn’t realize the ball wasn’t attached to it’s wheeled platform. The bank is long gone but the safe was dug up back in the 70’s and lives on as some sort of strange monument in this tiny village of about 250 people. There is no plaque indicating what it is or it’s history. Doug

Huw Eastwood

Doug MacQueen wrote
Max, here is one that I found in Summerfield, OH when I was actively searching out Corliss safes. This one has had a hard life, spending many decades literally as a bump in the road, where it was buried after falling off the truck as it was being moved from the bank. Apparently the movers didn’t realize the ball wasn’t attached to it’s wheeled platform. The bank is long gone but the safe was dug up back in the 70’s and lives on as some sort of strange monument in this tiny village of about 250 people. There is no plaque indicating what it is or it’s history. Doug

Doug thats an incredible story, there can’t be many safes that can claim to have been through all that and then preserved as a nameless monument. Must be a pretty odd sight to see it there on that stone plinth.

Priceless in terms of its background and history, and even the patinas just about right for me too!
Thanks for sharing that, I love seeing and hearing about any of these oldies that have a real story behind them.

[unknown]

wylk

Here’s another Corliss I’d like to know the story on. Embedding it in a wall? Or possibly building the wall around it? That does reduce the restoration effort.

Doug MacQueen

Yes that one was a bit of a surprise when I first saw it. It was in a working bank and I think it was still in use when I saw it around 10 years ago somewhere out in the Kansas- Missouri area. The wall was built around and they did a nice job. Certainly would surprise anyone thinking it was just some simple wall safe.

Texaschilli

26 March016

I have this Ely Norris cannonball. The paint is horrible. An old black and a few shards of plastic or vinyl gold pinstriping. Rough bondo or some white colored filler in places. Bare metal otherwise.

I am taking it down to bare metal then going back with a single stage black or maybe a black and clearcoat over some pinstriping.

A few questions.

(1) Where the base meets the safe there are a few places missing metal that almost looks like it corroded away. A couple of dime to nickel size chips or gouges. Would you just sand it down to remove the rust and leave it as a battle scar or would you fill it with bondo or migweld and hide the defect?

(2) The interior of this Ely Norris appears to have never been painted. It has a shiny look on parts of the very very rough metal that looks almost like it has been hit with a grinder. Would you paint the interior of a cannonball? I was thinking about an off-white so I could see inside it better.

(3) Is there anyplace to buy decals like the originals or how does one go about putting “Ely Norris” and “Manganeese Steel” back on?

Thanks

Texaschilli

wylk

An eBay user “TA125” sells a few decals, for example http://www.ebay.com/itm/252298020517

I don’t know if other decals are available or if some can be custom made but it’s a start.

A large enough sign store might be able to make you some stick-on text that looks good especially if you can find the right font.

Take some really good pictures of the existing lettering before the power sander gets turned on. But it looks mostly gone, so try to find other images online if you can as a guide.

Texaschilli

19 May 2016

I am getting ready to paint my Ely-Norris safe. The interior is bare metal. It is not really rusted, but does not appear to have ever been painted. Should I leave it bare? I was thinking about painting it an off white to be able to see inside better.

Any thoughts pro or con?

Texaschilli

10 June 2016

I am getting ready to paint my Ely Norris. I’ve decided to go with black instead of the Mazda Sol Red or Lexus Infra Red. I have asked for a little guidance here and got no comments about whether to paint the inside. My safe has never been painted inside. Any thoughts? I had the shelf powdered coated a cream color and the interior door is engined turned and in pretty good shape so I am just leaving it that way.

I am 61 so I will not have the safe but 20 or 30 years at best. Should I just leave the interior in the bare metal like it has been for the last 80 or 90 years?

By the way, does anyone know how to date an ElyNorris Cannonball? I have the serial number of the safe and three serial numbers on the timelock are in sequence so I assume it is original.

TexasChilli

00247

For a cast surface like in a cannonball I have used a “hammered” paint that Rustoleum makes. Using the silver color and playing around with how much you work the paint with the brush it gives a beautiful finish that looks like fresh cast with a little extra gloss. For a true hammered look you want to lay the paint in one pass if possible as extra strokes can leave brush marks. If you play around with different stiffness of bristles and how you much you work the paint you can get different effects. Not sure if there is a color that will compliment the color of your shelf.

If the finish is decent there is nothing wrong with leaving it as is. Be sure to post pictures of your progress.

Doug MacQueen

According to John Erroll, about 3,000 Y-361 timelocks were made, starting in 1909. It is unclear when production stopped, but sometime in the 1920’s. From a York catalog, black or aluminum were the 2 color choices. I am not sure if Ely Norris offered black prior to the York takeover, but it is a little more appropriate than a red. I have also seen a couple that were an off white. This beauty is one of the nicest I’ve seen.

Huw Eastwood

That is a beauty Doug. Thinking back to my research a good while back the Ely Norris always seemed the most sought after of all the cannonballs. Their auction prices went way over the others and the miniature salesman samples often double or treble. Not sure exactly why, or if that’s still the case now though, as a lot has happened with world economies and markets since then.

I remember also that silver/grey or aluminium that Doug’s shown also seemed the most common paint scheme for them.
Worth sticking with that and keeping things all original I would think.

Its a beautiful safe you have there Texachilli, and either way I would think that you have a winner with that one.

Doug MacQueen

Max, I think the unusual Yale Y-361 round case timelock automatic is the biggest draw for the Ely Norris. What most owners of these timelocks don’t realize, is the incredible amount of thought that went into designing the auto. Each time I work on one, I have to struggle my way though to a re-understanding of exactly what is happening. Coming in second with the Ely Norris would likely be the Yale 101-½ double dial combination lock and its mounting location in the explosion cavity of the compound door. I suspect that during the time these cannonballs were used, the Ely Norris were probably considered the best available. However, both Diebold and Mosler were determined to not be outdone by Ely’s innovative double compound door. Diebold’s rare double door may even pre-date Ely’s double compound door, based solely on patent dates. Mosler introduced the double lug door sometime around 1910 and was fairly popular. Diebold follows with their triple compound door, patent filed in 1909, but not awarded until 1913, which like their earlier double door, appears to be a rarity. This was actually a double door with inter-locking lugs. Finally Mosler has their Quadruple door. For years, I have wondered where they came up with that name, which seemed to be nothing more than an advertising ploy of outdoing the Ely Double and Diebold Triple Compound doors. Finally that mystery is put to rest. Today while getting these pictures together, I found a description of the Mosler Quadruple from a Mosler ad. It consisted of a screw door, lug, chambered door, and a double door. Strangely, none of the Mosler cannonballs carrying the name Quadruple have both lugs and screw, so it was, in fact, an advertising ploy. But the name was based on a Mosler safe design that was patented in 1914 and possibly even built. Patent #1,118,436 clearly shows a telescoping screw door built into a lug door. Good luck on finding one of these.

Huw Eastwood

Thanks Doug, had never really found an explanation and probably ended up assuming it was down to general aesthetics, proportions and numbers made- totally overlooking any attraction of the locking and round Yale automatics- so yes it makes more sense now.

I can remember from reading your posts the complexity on these is something else and a real ‘box of tricks’ for sure. Nothing like that to keep the old grey matter going.

Thanks for posting the info- there’s some great material there that I haven’t seen before and I have to admit to never getting tired of old cannonball pics, especially those with the door swung open at 90*…

I instantly recognise pic #3 as being the same Mosler I saw in an early 1980s Locksmith Ledger. As a young locksmith and safe tech in Britain they seemed like a world away, and thinking back that was probably the first image to really trigger my curiosity and interest in cannonballs.

Huw Eastwood

Just had a good look through and wow, what an absorbing read. I had no idea they’d pushed the designs of the actual doors to those levels, and was unaware of the outer and inner doors being independently locked but lugged together to form a single unit, also creating the explosive chamber between the two- brilliant stuff!

Interesting about the Mosler Quadruple, and can see what you are saying. It clearly has only a threaded door as in the last pic #9 but the patent drawing clearly shows additional projecting lugs like you say. Wonder if any examples were made featuring both, it’s always a great loss when such important records are lost with time.

Also love seeing all those marketing brochures from back then, seeing Ely Norris’ simple but bold statement; ‘the strongest safe in the world’ reminded me of a similar one of Mosler’s. Theirs was pictured with early tanks from the First World War as the background with the slogan ‘the most indestructible thing man has ever made’. Love it!
Cheers Doug, a thoroughly enjoyable read :-)