Is this a salesman sample or small safe

Dkozyk

I picked his safe up in the new england area and it has no marking on the safe just the dial it has some numbers and faded letters maybe saying st peni . Can someone help me id if this is a sales,am sample or a small safe measuring 16×13×10 and the manufacture ?

Brian Smith

Definitely a salesman sample.

Doug MacQueen

I don’t think it is a salesman sample, but rather just a small fire resistant home safe. A small and cheap fire safe was more important 100 years ago when that safe was made than it is today. Not sure of the maker but I have worked on similar ones. Typically a salesman sample would be smaller and therefore lighter. But that is not to say that every tiny safe is a salesman sample. Very small safes could be used to keep small amounts of cash from children or hired help. Doug

Brian Smith

Doug, that is an interesting contrast to what I have been told. My employer always described these as salesman samples, and he has been in the trade for nearly 60 years. I am in no position to take sides, but would like to know more. I have one myself, and have restored a few others. Two of them are probably from the same mold as this example. Mine has the original lock. A S&G with a two wheel changeable combination by means of perforated wheels and moveable stops. The fence lever is spring loaded. If anyone does know the maker, chime in!

Doug MacQueen

Brian, here are a few examples of small home safes from the same period. Note the largest Victor “toy ” safe is a functional small fire safe at only 12″ tall. Of course, it is quite possible that any smaller safe could have been used as a salesman sample. I don’t collect safes but to hard core collectors, a “true” salesman sample is a miniature reproduction of a larger model, and not a standard run production model. Very few were made, which is what has driven their value up so high.

Doug MacQueen

Here are some salesman samples from Tommy Minnicks collection I had the good sense to photograph when I had the chance at a SAVTA convention several years ago.

Doug MacQueen

Hopefully the pics come through this time.

David Hovey

Dkozyk wrote
I picked his safe up in the new england area and it has no marking on the safe just the dial it has some numbers and faded letters maybe saying st peni . Can someone help me id if this is a sales,am sample or a small safe measuring 16×13×10 and the manufacture ?

I’ve seen a lot of these over the years in my service area. These small safes were often mistaken for the rare salesman samples. “The Queen” was a popular home owners safe. Here’s some information to help. Sorry, old polaroid pictures.

[unknown]

Brian Smith

This has been a most informative conversation. I took another look at our safe today. It has been under the lathe for a couple of years now, waiting for me to do something with it. My wife has wanted me to restore it since her father gave it to her… with the salesman sample story. She has always sworn by the story, but could not tell me what the original finish should look like. Now I know, and I will get it done. Earlier I said it had an original S&G. I am correcting that now. The original bolt is with it, but the lock is one I adapted to it when the parts could not be found.
Brian

kwoswalt99

Doug MacQueen wrote
Here are some salesman samples from Tommy Minnicks collection I had the good sense to photograph when I had the chance at a SAVTA convention several years ago.

What brands are the last four safes?
Thanks,
Kyle

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

York Ely Norris , 2. Mosler vault?, 3. I’ll go with Art Metal but the finials are different, 4. LeFebure vault, 5. probably Silas Herring

kwoswalt99

Thanks Doug!