Antique safe locked can't get in

jd25q

I’m sure this is a common thread but, One of the two safes I showed in my other thread is locked and cannot be opened. There was a code stuck on the front which the previous owner thinks means the combination is 0-4-20-0. This was a system they used and she is pretty sure of it. That said they don’t think it’s been opened in 30 years, so could just be pretty stiff/rusted. The safe has a 100 digit dial.

Does that sequence of numbers make sense? Seems like a lot of low numbers. I’ve tried it following instructions on here and definitely hear and feel a ‘click’ in the dial on the ‘4’ when I do it, but it won’t open.

I thought about doing the combination and taping the dial on the last zero before we move it to see if something vibrates loose on the trip.

Thanks for any help, I’ll attached pictures again in case it is useful.

Timothy

If that combination was set in those number that would be a very bad number to used as look like it set in what they call “The Forbidden Zone”…..Timothy…

wylk

I wonder if what is meant is that 0-4-20 is the combination, then turn back to zero. That is, the last zero is not part of the combination, it’s what you do after dialing the combo. Contemporary locks usually go back to zero then beyond to withdraw the lock bolt. Some older locks need to be dialed back to zero, then reverse again. Other locks have other dialing sequences and sometimes the first part of battling a strange lock is knowing how to dial that particular unit.

jd25q

wylk wrote
I wonder if what is meant is that 0-4-20 is the combination, then turn back to zero. That is, the last zero is not part of the combination, it’s what you do after dialing the combo. Contemporary locks usually go back to zero then beyond to withdraw the lock bolt. Some older locks need to be dialed back to zero, then reverse again. Other locks have other dialing sequences and sometimes the first part of battling a strange lock is knowing how to dial that particular unit.

That’s a good thought. I’ll try that. I am somewhat confident based on the click I’m hearing and feeling in the dial that this is right to some degree. I’ll try your suggestion next time I get down there. (I haven’t moved them yet).

Thank you both for the ideas

[unknown]

wylk

A good close-up of the lock dial might be useful (if not merely interesting), as well as the “thing” to the left of the operating handle.

See http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/3328-How-to-upload-images-to-your-posts if needed.

I do get a kick out of the handle being made of welded rebar. It looks like it belongs on http://thereifixedit.com.

jd25q

Here are a couple of pictures. After another talk with the owner they seem to remember thinking that the handle was somehow broken internally preventing the safe from opening. I hope that is not the case. We shall see. Thanks for the ideas,

David Hovey

Yale Jr.'s lock operates 4L-3R-2L-R to 50 pull dial out while turning right to retract bolt. I’ve also seen a spindle spacer which deletes the push pull dial function.

Chubby

A “shear handle” was a feature of some UK safes to prevent the bolts being forced back by leverage on the handle. Was this ever used on models such as this?

jd25q

For an update. I got both safes moved thanks to the help of a roll back tow truck. Turns out the smaller of the two is very much heavier than the larger. Looking at it I can see why as the door is inset quite a bit more from the outside of the safe, about 6″ all the way around. Still have not been able to open it but I haven’t had much time to work at it either. The larger had an intact badger defense teargas cylinder inside which I removed. Will post updates as they come,

kwoswalt99

In my opinion, it looks like a Silas C. Herring safe.

Jim Casey

jd25q wrote
For an update. I got both safes moved thanks to the help of a roll back tow truck. Turns out the smaller of the two is very much heavier than the larger. Looking at it I can see why as the door is inset quite a bit more from the outside of the safe, about 6″ all the way around. Still have not been able to open it but I haven’t had much time to work at it either. The larger had an intact badger defense teargas cylinder inside which I removed. Will post updates as they come,

jd

Curious to see what if any progress has been made.

[unknown]

jd25q

Well not much in the way of opening it, but kind of a funny story. I originally offered the locked one to my friend who collects a lot of things, in exchange for paying the moving bill. His wife saw it in the garage and flipped out. Apparently when she tried to move it, her inability to do so sent her over the edge. He said he heard her yelling through the house “IT’S METAL!”. So the metallic nature of this safe has made it intolerable in the household.

Since I have no restrictions on items I can bring into my own home, he is having it delivered to me. Then I will get the chance to work on it a little more. I did mess with the combination I had along with the instructions for the pull out lock dial but was unable to open it. I’m tracking down the previous previous owner to see what else he can tell me about it. This is going back about 30 years so I’m not too confident in that one. I’ll let you know as it progresses.

The other safe I got in this deal works great. The dial is very smooth but then again it has been in constant use all these years. It is not built as heavily as the locked one. I suppose it is more of a fire safe. Interestingly, it is a 5R, 4L, 3R, to 0

Jim Casey wrote
Curious to see what if any progress has been made.

[unknown]

Brian Smith

Maybe you can use a couple of these bits. It has some Diebold characteristics; the deep set dial shape, and the door keeper. The keeper should always be flipped toward the frame and snug in place to keep pressure off the locking bolts, when running the combination and handle. If the numbers are the combination it should be easy to open. It is probably a direct drive lock without a fence lever. Learn about manipulation techniques.

jd25q

Thank you Brian,

What do you mean by the door keeper? Is that the part to the left of the handle? It seems like it’s not all there. I still haven’t gotten it to my place so I’ll definitely be trying to learn to manipulate this lock. Problem is that the dial has some noise in it around about half the travel as if it’s rubbing on something. Thanks for the ideas,

David Hovey

The dial and ring you posted of this safe is a mate for the Yale Jr single dial combination lock. This lock will not manipulate in the conventional sense. A lever-fence type lock with a drive cam that does not have a gate opening, hence no contact points.

The lock is also difficult to drill and scope open, because of a wheel-pack shroud. A full shroud with a small opening for only the fence.

jd25q

Thank you David,

So not very encouraging? I have the equipment to make a clean cut in the door so that I could weld back in a patch. Do you suppose I could cut through the area where the bolts are and disconnect them and retract them that way? Otherwise I’ll be looking for an expert to manipulate it I suppose.

Thanks,

David Hovey wrote
The dial and ring you posted of this safe is a mate for the Yale Jr single dial combination lock. This lock will not manipulate in the conventional sense. A lever-fence type lock with a drive cam that does not have a gate opening, hence no contact points.

The lock is also difficult to drill and scope open, because of a wheel-pack shroud. A full shroud with a small opening for only the fence.

DH

[unknown]

jd25q

I guess I’d be looking for someone in the Roanoke, VA area. Or someone that may be traveling through VA on I-81 at some point. I’m not in any hurry.

Brian Smith

Hey JD,
Yes, the keeper I refer to is the part to the left of the handle. It is made to apply pressure on the door. That keeps the door closed tightly. A tight door kept the nitro from running in, and the bolt-work aligned while the handle is being turned to open or close. It is the same idea as the pressure system on a vault door, only much simpler.

Not trying to be contrary David, but if all parts are in tact, my methods of manipulation, though challenged as being unconventional, are almost always successful.
When they are not successful, I drill and scope. I have never failed to open a safe when asked to do so. I never recommend a saw, or a torch unless the contents are the on objective. The damage is really hard to justify. By the way I have been thinking of visiting relatives in Roanoake. What a coincidence! BpS

jd25q

THank you Brian, I sent you a private message with my contact information so let me know when you are in the area

David Hovey

jd25q wrote
Thank you David,

So not very encouraging? I have the equipment to make a clean cut in the door so that I could weld back in a patch. Do you suppose I could cut through the area where the bolts are and disconnect them and retract them that way? Otherwise I’ll be looking for an expert to manipulate it I suppose.

Thanks,

jd

I would never condone opening a safe by cutting a hole in it, that’s just me. Locksmiths and Yeggs alike would do this to gain access to the back of the lock. In your case the comb lock’s curb and cover are locked on and can not be removed without excessive damage.

I don’t mean to sound discouraging, this safe can be easily micro drilled opened without damage by a professional.

[unknown]