Hatton Gardens

Chubby

Any thoughts?

Anybody want to own up now? You might get a reduced sentence.

I was in Chengdu and have witnesses to support my alibi.

Paul Prescott

A 1950’s door (of unknown quality) can hardly be blamed for yielding when under attack over possibly 3 days. That’s if they went through the door. Information is a little thin on the ground as yet.

Brian Morland MLA Hon

Seems they went through the wall…

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Brian Morland wrote
Seems they went through the wall…

Those of us in the US have no idea what you are talking about.
BBE.

[unknown]

wylk

Over the long Easter weekend, burglars broke into Hatton Gardens Safe Deposit Ltd. and ran off with a large amount of loot.

Some articles:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/08/hatton-garden-london-vault-raid-jewellers-anxious-stolen-property and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3029066/Robbery-gang-use-heavy-cutting-equipment-break-vault-Hatton-Garden-jewellery-district-steal-300-safety-deposit-boxes.html and http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-32207974

I’m not sure the press really have all the details. Aside from questioning whether they went through the door or wall, what happened to the alarm system?

safeman

Have a look at the Pathe website - Film of the Day.

Paul Prescott

1949 - though the wall is a good bet, especially if the alarms were defeated or ignored. Seems they stole the CCTV NVR too.

wylk

The Pathe film (a newsreel describing the opening of the safe deposit company) is at http://www.britishpathe.com/video/hatton-garden-beats-jewel-bandits

Already the press is getting things screwed up. The Pathe site claims 300 boxes were opened, but according to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3029066/Robbery-gang-use-heavy-cutting-equipment-break-vault-Hatton-Garden-jewellery-district-steal-300-safety-deposit-boxes.html and others, 70 boxes were hit. The number 300 comes from a sidebar story about the Baker Street heist in 1971.

Chubby

wylk wrote
The Pathe film (a newsreel describing the opening of the safe deposit company) is at http://www.britishpathe.com/video/hatton-garden-beats-jewel-bandits

Already the press is getting things screwed up. The Pathe site claims 300 boxes were opened, but according to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3029066/Robbery-gang-use-heavy-cutting-equipment-break-vault-Hatton-Garden-jewellery-district-steal-300-safety-deposit-boxes.html and others, 70 boxes were hit. The number 300 comes from a sidebar story about the Baker Street heist in 1971.

Is that a Chubb door on the Pathe footage?

[unknown]

Paul Prescott

Certainly is Chubb.

Looks like a MKII Treasury door on Crane Hinge.

Chubby

Is that the strongroom that was pierced? If so they were relying on 70 year old technology. Doubtless very good in its day but scarcely adequate for the modern tooling available now.

From what has been said, though, it sounds as if there has been inside help. I suppose if your staff are bent there isn’t a lot that is going to keep a place secure. Of course all this is pure speculation.

Huw Eastwood

There’s just been a live update on the bbc news with a police spokesperson holding a press update outside the deposit centre. A few hard and fast details are now starting to come out- just announced they went through the vault wall which was 2 metres thick and used a Hilti DD350 to drill holes..

Chubby

2 metres of Chubb concrete with a Hilti. Mmmmmmm. I suppose it is possible. But that can’t be the whole story. What about the steel? I suspect this is not the full story by any means.

Good recommendation for Hilti tools, though.

wylk

Here’s an image of a Hilti in use. I might expect the Hatton Garden gang used a smaller drill since reports state several holes were drilled.

Here’s a similar setup that was being used to break into a Berlin bank but the bad guys tripped an alarm before they were finished:

Brian Morland MLA Hon

2 meters of this…

(from Chubb’s own publicity material)

or was it only the door that was new in 1947?

Huw Eastwood

Wow- that’s a serious size core. With 2 metre thick walls, I was thinking the same. The DD350 seems a pretty impressive bit of kit, and is according to makers spec intended for stitch drilling cores- seeing the size of those it could be possible but there would still be complications. The limited depth feed of the drill (500 mm?) means either continuous drilling by adding additional extensions or drilling to max depth and then breaking out a part-core. not at all easy assuming the 2 metres thickness is peppered with any one of Chubb’s famous barrier deflectors- tangbar, spiral matress etc.

my guess is continuous holes drilled with extensions until they broke clean through, but either way it must have been hell of a slog with all the reinforcing.

Huw Eastwood

I’d be surprised if they were still using that door from the late 1940s. Perhaps we’ll find out eventually but knowing the periodic makeovers and upgrades some of the other deposit centres had over the years it’d be risky if they are.

when you consider the massive risks involved with this sort of business, it raises (for me anyway!) many questions about the vault itself. We all know how secretive the safety deposit world is, and the fact the values and losses involved often many times what’s declared. Which raises the big question of what spec vault and door would you opt for? Add into the equation the fact that we’re now in an age of off-the-shelf doors made to resist to a certain grade only and the whole concept and idea seems madness to me- unless you’re prepared to still take massive risks which insurers are still prepared to cover..

Doug MacQueen

Gotta love those Germans. So a meter is 39 inches so we’re talking about 78 inches. So unless they had a good method to remove the plug as they went part way in, they would have needed a very long core drill. Certainly possible but does sound a bit fishy.

Doug MacQueen

Sorry Max for repeating what has already been said. When I do mine I’m going through the door.

wylk

Doug MacQueen wrote
… unless they had a good method to remove the plug as they went part way in, they would have needed a very long core drill.

I wonder if they used a smaller-diameter core drill and drilled many holes. With a small diameter and a good diameter-to-length ratio you can probably drive a wedge in on one side and break off the plug then continue. Once that’s done you start another hole, and continue until you get something big enough to crawl through. After all, they had four days and only opened 70 boxes.

A few more images follow. The first is via YouTube showing a drill in a deep hole. Second is an actual hole in a parking garage which was used to dig a tunnel into a bank in Berlin. Third is a 6 ¾ inch diameter, 17 inch long core drill.

[unknown]