Restoring a Cannonball Safe in need of Help identifying

greenhorn

I picked up a cannonball safe here a couple weeks ago, I had been looking for one for about a year.
I wanted to find one that looked like it was workable for restoration. (Because I am new with safes)

After looking at alot of rusty safes or safes that were missing time locks or combination dials doors ect.
I finally found and bought this cannonball safe that a guy had bought from the original bank. He took it out of the bank and it sat outside for 2 weeks.

You can see there is a little rust but not to bad. The time lock seemed to be in good shape and working, the bolts on the door were working in and out, but the door would not shut from the rust on the door. and it seemed to come with all the working tools. (I am assuming) Crank for the door , crank for the bolts on the door, crank for setting the inner
spring loaded device that works with the time lock and the keys for the time lock. O and a cover plate for the putting around the outside combination lock for you can not see the dial.

Anyway was just wondering if anybody could help in telling me the date it was manufactured, and who would be the manufacture of the safe. Would it be manganese safe company or yale or was yale combination locks just put on it?

I have what appears to be a serial number on the safe of 1880. It is stamped on a couple of the outside plates. The time lock serial numbers are not in numerical order so maybe they were switched out at some time.(shown in pics)
Thanks for any advice and help in advance Dale

wylk

The manufacturer was Manganese Steel Safe Company. Originally founded as the Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company circa 1899, the name was changed in 1903. They seem to have gone out of business in 1909 and were acquired by Mosler. It’s clear yours was manufactured after the 1904 patent date and probably before 1910.

The name Norris is also interesting. One reason Hibbard-Rodman-Ely changed name was because Ely left the company in 1903 and partnered with Norris (a successful west-coast salesman) to form the Ely-Norris Safe Company. I don’t know if that helps narrow down the manufacturing date of your cannonball; it might just slightly suggest an earlier date than a later date.

Yale provided the locks, timers, and automatic bolt motor.

BTW, that’s a very nice find.

wylk

If you don’t already have a copy, I’d recommend the book American Genius by David and John Erroll. It has an extensive history of time locks (along with nice photography) that should be interesting. Somewhere here on antique-locks is a discussion of errors in the book, try this: http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/1710-Errors-in-American-Genius.

greenhorn

Thanks for the Information wylk. Kinda narrows it down to some time between 1904 and 1909 it sounds like.
Is there anyway of looking up serial numbers off the safe to get dates? I know on old pocket watches one can take the serial number to get the date of manufacture.
The book that was recommended is an awesome book with some good info and great pictures of the great old time locks. I can spend hours in that book.

I was able to get the door to close buy using baby powder on the inside of the door jam. It help show where the high spots were. then I could focus on the high spots.

Once I got the door to close I was able to see how the safe worked. Beings all the time lock movements were working I was able to check the function of the bolts that come out on the door to make sure they worked in conjunction with the time locks.
I set the time locks and moved the bolts on the door in the out position about 6 or 8 times to make sure that when the time locks wound down to zero hours I was able to move the bolts on the door back in. I did this in the door open position. When it all checked out I did it in the door closed position (Kinda scary the first time locking it).

After that was done I took it apart to start the restoration. Time lock looks good but needs servicing. Door gears I found some rust glad I took apart. The gears behind the door was Interesting I will post pictures if anybody wants to see.

Once the paint was removed it was interesting to see the base Almost looked like lead?? Compared to the top being of steel. Just curios if any body knows what the bases were made of? I took sand paper to it and it was defiantly softer then the steel ?

greenhorn

Doors on the safe have been removed to replate. My question is. Is it better to have them chromed or nickled as original? I am going to put the engine turning {damaskeening} back on the doors. Is it easier to work with on chrome or nickle? What looks better?

Paint has been removed from the safe. I am shocked on how rough it is under the paint. Having fun with this project. It is all new stuff to me.

Arcade Al

It’s a great project - many thanks for keeping us well updated so far. I will follow the rest of the restoration with interest!

Dean Nickel

Yes do keep posting pictures. I noticed that the serial numbers on two of the time movements are not matching. Are all three that way? If that is the case the movements have been replaced at some point. Not a surprise over 100 years.

greenhorn

Embarrassed to say it took me close to a week to get this last gear off the door. It is the one that goes threw the front door and moves the bolts out to the door jam,and working in conjunction with the time locks.

This gear needed to be removed to be cleaned oiled and there was a bur in it that was hanging up and not turning freely. There was a locking screw on the base of the gear and a tapered pin. The tapered pin was made in a L shape, and was very deceiving in how the hole thing was put together. I was unable to get the pin out in one piece. So I had to drill it out, and then take a jewelers bur to drill and remove the rest of the pin out.
Once out I was thinking I needed a wheel puller at first. After lots of scratching on the head trying to figure this out. I could see that the back was tapered and no room to get a puller behind it to pull it. I pulled out the locking screw on the gear and could actually see the threads on the shaft. So I was finally able to get it off, by putting a block of wood in between the gear and the door and turning it off. Now I can move on.

Here are the pictures of the door and the gear. Maybe it will save someone else some time. Probably should have just asked here on the forum. I probably would have saved me some time. I probably would have more hair on the back of my head today. LOL

The shaft that holds the gear is tapered for it cant go threw the door and threaded on the other side to hold the gear. Shown in the pictures.

greenhorn

Dean Nickel wrote
Yes do keep posting pictures. I noticed that the serial numbers on two of the time movements are not matching. Are all three that way? If that is the case the movements have been replaced at some point. Not a surprise over 100 years.

Yes you are correct Dean. The movements are not in order and the dial on the middle one does not match the other two dials. I would agree that they have been replaced at one time. I have a couple other Yale time locks that I have with matching movement serial numbers with matching Dials that I was thinking of using. I just wish I new witch one would be the closest production date to the 1904 to 1909 dates of the safe.

 Pictures of the three I do have at my disposal to use when it comes time to tear them down and  clean them for the restoration.

[unknown]

greenhorn

The restoration project has slowed down significantly since I started the bondo. non the less it is still moving along.
I have never done bondo and have gained great respect for those who do bondo for a living. It is an art form and you are actually seeing threw the touch of your hands to see your highs and lows in your project. Then correcting the highs and lows is another issue. I am learning alot.

Here are some pics of the project safe as I started the bondo and as it sits today.