World's Largest Round Vault Door

Doug MacQueen

Did a job there a couple of days ago and found a couple pictures I hadn’t seen before. Doug

Dean Nickel

How thick is that door? 3 ft? 4?

Huw Eastwood

Is it 5 feet?

If Doug’s right on the doorstep in Cleveland and gets to work there (lucky lucky man!) then he’s got to know for sure-

I spent ages researching a few years back- there’s not that many pics on the net. Although it was de-commissioned a while back and it’s open to ‘tourist’ visits, I get the impression that they still won’t allow any photography at all, as apart from a couple of ‘official’ color pics the majority are old black and white shots from the 40s and 50s.

I also found the facts and figures varied quite a bit- I think the FRB’s official site puts the door at 5 feet thick and about 100 tons in total, with the hinges. Other sites say 47 tons for the hinge and 40 tons for the door casting prior to machining, which leaves a big question mark, as how ‘hollowed’ was the casting in order to allow for the in-fill of the laminations and barrier materials they typically used- And, how much additional weight would they add etc. Plus, most vault doors (or strongrooms as they tend to be called here in the UK) are usually given as overall weight including the frame, so again there’s massive scope for variation.

Anyway, looking forward to Doug’s answer, and in the meantime I discovered this picture appeared on the net only days ago-

Huw Eastwood

And while on the subject of the ’World’s Largest Round Vault Door’, is this the ’World’s Smallest Version of the World’s Largest Round Vault Door’? Lol
Doesn’t get worn very often, but on days of Maximum Vaultage I occasionally hang it around me neck 🙁rofl):

Doug MacQueen

Oh, I can see you are going to be very popular on here, at least with some of us. The door plug is 4 feet and 5 feet overall. Just the emergency door, hinge and jamb is 100 tons and I think I have a photo of that. I believe the main door, hinge and jamb is 300 tons in total. It seems every time I do a job there I forget my camera, but I don’t foresee any problems of getting some photos. It is a very impressive door in person. Doug

wylk

Here’s a construction image and most of the related text from a book “Monuments to Money” which is a history of bank architecture.

(You may need to save the image and view it outside your browser’s attempt to show it, to get the best readability and image quality).

wylk

Doug MacQueen wrote
Just the emergency door, hinge and jamb is 100 tons and I think I have a photo of that.

A photo of the emergency door would be very nice. I’ve never found one in books or on the Web.

[unknown]

wylk

A 1950 16mm movie about the Cleveland Fed is on YouTube in two parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqpCFTDo_M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPl8uf8Q-w8

After the introduction, the first part shows the vault door being opened. At the end of the second part, the door is shown being closed.

Note that the combination locks are mounted to the door frame rather than the door, which was a hallmark of Remington & Sherman. This is a York door, suggesting it was built after York acquired R&S.

Adrian Weber

That is really a HUGE vault door! Is this one the same:

Max, I would kill for that necklace 😃
Mind if I post that in a jewellery forum? With your permission.

Huw Eastwood

Great stuff guys!

This just keeps getting better……………..

Thanks for confirming the door thickness Doug- I’d often wondered if the reputed 5 foot was ‘overall’ thickness, or just the ‘slab’ or protective ‘plug’ thickness.

I’ve attached a few pics- First ones often said to be the Cleveland FRB Emergency door, but although it all looks right I’m not 100% certain. I’ve seen it included with pics of a main door which is very similar to the CFRB, but slightly different pattern.

NB: Check out the number of fixing studs on the top hinge carriage of any pics you find- the Cleveland door has 10, whereas there are several similar, but slightly thinner doors with 8. They are still massive doors, and look identical, it’s only when you get picky with the details that the differences become apparent.

The second pic is of what again is supposedly the CFRB door being machined at York’s on the vertical turret lathe. From this shot it looks spot-on for the door in question, but it could be one of the other similar, slightly thinner doors.

Third pic is probably right- when closed the crane hinge covers the bottom carriage fixings and obscures them from view.

Dicey- that side-on pic of the door is awesome- really puts it all in perspective!

Wylk- Going over to Utube now to look at those vids- Look’s like Christmas has come early for me this year…………..

🙁happy):

Adrian Weber

Are these pictures yours? If yes can you maybe scan them for better quality?

Huw Eastwood

Almost forgot-

Dicey-

Yes, feel free to show my necklace/pendant. Just mention where you saw it and get me some orders lol :o:

The chain is my daily stainless ‘chunky’ I wear, but the CFRB door pendant is something I made years ago-
It’s all machined from matching 316 stainless and took ages- index milling all the bolt holes around the door was a nightmare-
It’s tough stuff to work at the best of times but even more so in small sizes- You need to flood it with so much coolant you can’t see what you’re doing!

It’s a bit of fun though, even if most people wonder what the heck it is! 🙁nerd):

Huw Eastwood

I’m totally out of sync with these now lol.

All the old black and white pics of the actual door are ones I’ve just trawled up over the years. wish I did have them in A4 size to enlarge etc, but unfortunately not.

Adrian Weber

Yes, feel free to show my necklace/pendant. Just mention where you saw it and get me some orders

You made this yourself????
This is sooooo coool 😃

Probably could not afford one though but one day I’ll place an order!

wylk

MaxVaultage wrote
The second pic is of what again is supposedly the CFRB door being machined at York’s on the vertical turret lathe.

I’d love to know how they machined the frame to match the door. If they could fit it on the same lathe while the tool holder was set at the same angle, that would make it easier. There is an interesting Hibbard patent (US 817,774) which describes a machine that will grind a door into its frame (lapping) for a very close fit.

[unknown]

Ian D. Lewis

Hope they have a emergency door in case the main door jams. These door are really interesting would be great to see one close up. Would also have loved to been on the installation of one of these beasts.

Doug MacQueen

Here is the emergency door still in the factory. Quite a few years ago I knew a rigger who had worked on the installation with several of his brothers. He was the only one left. Doug

Adrian Weber

I get the impression that they still won’t allow any photography at all, as apart from a couple of ‘official’ color pics the majority are old black and white shots from the 40s and 50s.

Doug: You were not allowed to make pictures or? Are these black and white pics in your possession or did you just scan them? What did you do there? You can write a PM if you want.
I was allowed to do pictures at the Kromer factory (I believe I was the first one that was allowed to take pictures). I am not allowed to publish pictures though. I am writing an article on the factories history atm and I will show some pictures in the article but I have to ask permission for each picture. All pictures are saved on a highly encrypted USB Stick (Kingston DT6000) and all traces of the pictures on my computer have been cleaned to NSA standard. The computer was not connected to the Internet while transfer.

Max: Is the door on my picture the same? Still waiting on the scans of theses 2 emergency door pics 🙂

Doug MacQueen

I did take a few pictures years ago but have never been able to find them. Some pictures I have are from the brochure put out when the bank was first built. Then others, the three recently posted, are from the archives at the bank. Doug

Huw Eastwood

wylk- thanks so much for posting those videos- I’d never have guessed in a million years that there was any ‘official’ footage like that!!

Totally amazing to see that CFRB door being opened and closed!

Loved the last minute wipe down of the bottom of the frame with a mop before they close it!

Those videos are well worth a look if anyone else hasn’t seen them- A real blast back into the old days of banking- I loved the cheque (or check) counter machines! All mechanical fabricated metal before plastic and electronics took over- great stuff.

You mentioned the machining of the frame- I don’t know for sure but would imagine they were turned on the same big vertical mills (or lathes- both terms are used for those big verticals).
In all of the pics of doors I’ve seen being turned there is always extra capacity on the machine capable of taking the frame. As a ‘bare’ casting without any fixtures or attachments the frame would fit comfortably on the table and any irregularities in weight distribution balanced until equal. The rotational speeds on sizes of that diameter are of course very very low compared to everyday turning on small horizontal center lathes.

On the same subject, here’s another-

Consider some of the massive RECTANGULAR doors that were made with as many as 5 or 6 tapered steps and radiused curved corners.

Being rectangular obviously eliminates turning, which by it’s nature of process creates circular and concentric parts. Set the angle on the top-slide, tool post or carriage etc and you get matching tapers like wylk said. Any of you guys that do your own machining will understand the difficulties with a rectangular door! Milling the matching frames by horizontal passes with milling cutters inside the frame when it’s stepped, tapered and has radiused internal corners must have really had those guys scratching their heads a bit……..🙁think):

Great thread guys-