Cant open very old york huge safe

trot

Hello everyone I come to you in the need of help, I have a very old YORK Safe that came with my house, the house was build in the late 1800’s by a wealthy attorney and for a while it was the largest house in town, the house came with many safes all of which have been opened throughout the years apart from this one. The previous owner told me that the safe was opened only once VERY long time ago. He did give me a set of little notes with combinations, but I cannot for the life of me open it up, could someone shed some light onto how to open this safe up, it would be greatly appreciated I could use detailed baby step by step instructions since I am very very bad with all types of locks I am including a picture of the safe and the little notes 🙁nerd):. I am really excited to see whats inside the safe hopefully lost/stolen national treasures 🙁clap):🙁clap):

Yankee

Hi Trot,

The following is how to dial a safe combo…baby steps.

We will start with the four number combo you have.

You will be using the mark at the top of the dial ring as the indication point, this is at the 12 o’clock position.

Turn the dial to the right (clockwise) until the number 10 has passed the mark on the dial ring four times. As it approaches the mark for the fifth time slow down and come to a stop at 10.

Now turn the dial left (counter clockwise) watching the number 35. Each time the number 35 passes the top mark, that is considered a full turn. You will note that the first turn is very short due to the numbers 10 and 35 being so close. You should pass the number 35 three times, stopping the fourth time that 35 comes to the mark.

Turn the dial right watching the number 50 as it comes to the mark. Pass the mark two times, stopping at 50 the third time it comes to the mark.

Now turn the dial left watching the number 75 as it comes to the mark. Pass the mark one time, stopping at 75 the second time it comes to the mark.

Finally, turn the dial to the right slowly, as it approaches the 0 mark you may feel what is known as drop in, keep turning until the dial comes to a stop. You shouldn’t be able to turn to the right anymore. If however, the dial makes it a full turn without stopping, you don’t have the correct numbers, or a dialing error has happened.

Now how to dial a three number combo.

Turn the dial to the left, using the number 20 as a reference. Stop the fourth time 2 is at the top indication point.

Now turn the dial right, watching the number 95 now. Stop the third time 95 is at the mark.

Turn the dial to the left, watching the number 60 now. Stop the second time 60 is at the mark.

Turn the dial to the right slowly now, as you approach the 0 mark you may feel the drop in. Keep turning until the dial comes to a stop and you can’t turn it anymore. If these are the correct numbers your lock is now open. You can turn the safe handle and see the great things you have just set free.

Best of luck to you.

If you have any questions at all, just ask… I’m sure one of us on here will have the answer.

Yankee

Sorry Trot….

I goofed, on the second dialing sequence that should have been a 20, instead of a 2.

trot

Thank you will try now!

trot

UPDATE: No dice, tried both of the combos neither of them seemed to work. 🙁-: I tried them several times, I even let two other people try it. Im guessing the numbers left for this safe arent for this safe at all!! Now what are my options of opening it up without damaging the safe, is it possible? I would think it would be easy since its over 100 years old.

Yankee

Hi Trot,
Well you gave it a great try. As for your options, you should hire a qualified safe/vault tech. to open it for you. I wouldn’t say that it would be easy to open, even as you say it’s 100 years old. You are asking that no damage be done to the safe, that my friend, just limited you to a very few of us in the industry. The talent needed to open the safe by feel is rare, and those that truly can do it, charge appropriately. From my point of view, you do not have a rare safe on your hands. If you find a good safe / vault tech. with a fiber optic scope, they should be able to open it with just one little ⅜″ hole near the dial. That hole could then be patched and you would have a fine working safe. You can look up a safe tech on the SAVTA web site.

Best of luck

wylk

Yankee wrote
Finally, turn the dial to the right slowly, as it approaches the 0 mark you may feel what is known as drop in, keep turning until the dial comes to a stop. You shouldn’t be able to turn to the right anymore.

I beg to differ on this last operation. It is correct for contemporary combination locks, but older ones (e.g. friction fence a.k.a. roller fence Yale), you turn to the right to allow the fence drop into the gate, but after you get to zero, you turn around and dial left until it stops. Try that and let us know.

[unknown]

Timothy

This is something else to try as what i think may work. Turn dial 4 time right stop @ 10. Now as turning dial left three time. Another word as 10 your first number as you are turning the dial left to second number 10, keep going again until you get to the third number 10. Now go pass that 10 to 35. As 35 turn dial right two time. 35 is your first number turning right keep going again until you get to second 35. Now go pass that 35 to 50. As 50 turn dial left until you get to 75 as you get to 75 keep turning left slowing until you no lomger can turn the dial.

Brian Smith

I have done this stuff for over thirty years so assuming you have the correct set of combinations, you can open your safe. You said there are other safes in the house that you have opened. Be sure these don’t work for any others or you are likely wasting your time. Assuming they are the right ones, go like this; The five number combination is probably for the high security compartment inside. Let’s wait on that. Start with the four number (four stop) combination first. Start to the left. It does not matter where you start, just start turning left (counter clockwise) and pass the first number at least four times and stop on it. Don’t be sloppy. Stop exactly on the number from a continuous steady rotation. If you pass it even by one mark, don’t cheat and go back. Go all the way around another time and stop. Once done, turn back the other direction (clockwise). Make exactly three moves toward the next number. Stop on the third time. Don’t pass and go back. Don’t go around another time. If you miss this one or any of the next, you must start over. Assuming you have done that series of turns correctly, turn back again this time twice to the next number and stop, and then again the opposite direction toward the indicated last number. When you get there, you should feel something different. It may stop. That’s good. you’re done if so. It may just feel like a slight bump and render nothing. That’s not so good, but not so bad. Feeling that bump means it wants to go but it’s old and stiff, like getting off the couch after a long movie. You can wiggle the dial a little, no more than a couple marks either side of the bump, and coax it into a stop. The final turn will be the same direction as the last turn was indicated, and open it will be. You may get to that point and feel nothing. Get a rubber mallet or something similar and give the door (not the lock) a couple whacks. Not a lot, just enough to rattle the door some. Then wiggle the dial a bit, always ending in the last indicated direction. Still nothing? Turn the tee handle counter clockwise (for this safe) to be sure the linkage is not cramping the lock, and dial the lock again. Keep doing it at least five or ten times, until you are dead sure what you are feeling and that your dialing process is correct. If that still does not work, the lock is either too stuck with old grease, or you just have the wrong combination. Try the five number combo a few times the same way taking great care to follow the directions (the arrows say which way to go). If it still doesn’t go. Don’t get a driller yet. Get someone to manipulate the lock. I’ll do it if you can’t find anyone else nearby. Don’t get it drilled because once it is drilled, plugged and painted, someone else can get in the same way. I know. I have done that too. The cover up will never match perfectly and simply announces where to attack. This safe being built in to the wall as it is should be preserved if at all possible. Of course if you just want the stuff inside, have it drilled and leave it open. If there is anything of value inside, it will be behind the heavier door behind this one anyway. Good luck and let us know how things go.

Doug MacQueen

Cerrajero, welcome to the forum, there seem to be very few safe techs who are members, at least based on input. However, I do take issue with your advise on drilling. I too, have been doing this for over 30 years, opening safes both by manipulation and by drilling. The vast majority of my drillings would require both knowledge and equipment the typical burglar does not have. As to the patched up hole, there have been many times where I have drilled a safe only to find that it had been drilled before in a different spot, patched and in some cases the whole safe repainted. Historically, illegal safecracking by drilling has, for the most part, been extremely rare and still is today. However, there are many, many safes out there in use that have been professionally drilled and repaired. In fact, since the York safe here has been repainted, I would not be at all surprised to find it has been drilled open. It is possible to plug drilled holes in most fire safes that would frustrate seasoned safe drillers. It is also possible, in many cases, to paint over a good repair to the point where it won’t be noticed. The point is that Joe Q Public (including most safe collectors) already has an unrealistic aversion to drilling. I hope I can convince you to rethink your opinion. Doug CMS CPS

Dean Nickel

Yes welcome to the fourm!

While I am not a safe tech most of the time, just light service work in that part of the craft, I will have to go with Doug on this topic. Our safe tech for the company I work for can make it so you can’t see the point of entry if the customer wants the repair done by us. Takes a bit of care but if done correctly will blend in even on close inspection. That is why we are getting the job is because we are the profesionals and we should leave the container in as good if not better condtion than we find it if we are asked to open and repair.

While I agree it is prefered to try manipulation to see if there is good contact points it is not always an option. As was pointed out old grease can be a problem and can take that option away.

Brian Smith

Doug and Halflock, Thanks to both of you for the warm welcome. I have always enjoyed a hearty debate on any subject regarding any aspect of the subject of safes, vaults, locks, keys, and pretty much anything else. I hoped to make it clear that manipulation is simply my preference. I did not specify much why, mostly in an effort to stay on subject. Honestly, I have nothing against drilling. I have done it so much that I have designed and made my own drill rig which is nearly worn out. My primary love for manipulation is the satisfaction of knowing once I am in, the job is done. There is no repair to be done except to correct whatever mechanism may have been the cause, no heavy lifting, no painting, no whining about how the paint may not match, no lingering doubt in the mind and on the tongue of the compartment owner regarding the future security of its’ contents. Truth be told, drilling is the fastest way to make entry and I have written my own programs to facilitate the dialing process which helps me keep focused and find the drop point faster. I truly enjoy the chance to use a borescope and only wish they were more reliable. I also find great satisfaction in taking a torch to the back of a safe, and skipping caution all together. I maintain however, if I am going for a clean and easy job, when time is NOT of the essence, nothing is better, especially when the combination sheet is right there in my hand. Thanks again for your comments. I appreciate the opportunity to talk the issues more than anything.

Doug MacQueen

Hey, I hear where you are coming from as manipulation has always been my first choice too. But ever since a collector had me X-ray a safe because I failed to manipulate it and he didn’t want it drilled, I get touchy with anti-drill people. Don’t get me wrong, X-raying was an interesting experience but it generally isn’t feasible in the day to day work. Another example of the NO drill attitude was found in Tombstone AZ. There is a big Corliss cannonball sitting outside the Courthouse there with no dials on it. I told them I would drill the thing open, for free as I was researching the Corliss safes on a cross country trip. They said if I wanted to open it, I would have to supply the dial and manipulate the lock (S&G No. 2-½ Automatic 4 wheel manipulation resistant), because the safe was an historical artifact and it couldn’t be damaged. A big cast iron ball sitting outside with no dials, no paint and few would even recognize it as even being a safe and they didn’t want it damaged. Idiots.

beckville

A good friend of mine recently purchased an old bank built in 1908. There is a York co. Vault door that is open but locked. We’ve taken the back off the combination dial and it seems like all for numbers are the set the same. By looking at these pictures can anyone tell us what the numbers are actually Set at and how to unlock it. Maybe even tell me if we can reset the lock with our own numbers thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope there is someone out there who can help instead of telling us to contact a professional. Thanks

wylk

It looks like the one visible wheel is set at 50. One common factory combination is simply 50, and this is sometimes used when a lock is being taken out of service. In the case of a 4-wheel lock, turn right several turns and stop at 50; then turn left until the dial stops at which point the lock should be unlocked. Details of the dialing sequence might be different for older locks.

Certainly the combination can be changed but let’s concentrate on getting it working first!

wylk

I might have mis-spoken regarding the simple 50 combination, if it doesn’t work then try it the other way around. That is, left several turns to 50, then right to open.

Brian Smith

Mr. Wylk was right the first time, unless the photo was taken in a mirror.
This lock is super simple.
If it does not open on 50, try 51, and back; 49, and back; and so on, continuing that process until the fence lever drops.
Once you know how the settings relate to the actual dialing, you will know (if any deviation from the setting occurs) whether the dial ring, or the driver is the cause.
To reset the combination, pop the center ring of each wheel out, align the index mark with another number.
There are some other details to be careful about, so be careful to document every change you make.
Keep it clean and be light on the lube.