old safe- unknown make

goldpro

I bought this old safe and I’d like to make a key for it and open it. Hopefully I’ll be able to include some pics of it. The handle is missing and the keyway is very narrow. I can see some brass parts moving up and down when I turn the handle but it won’t open. It feels like there might be a night latch linked to the handle shaft. The handle shaft turns ccw from 12 o’clock to 9 o’clock and springs back. It won’t turn cw past 12 o’clock. Can anyone help with more info? thanks Tom.

Doug MacQueen

Tom, your safe looks to be 1850-60’s and possibly from Boston. That type of lock was fairly popular then and there were several different styles and makers. Turning the handle CC would raise the levers or sliders up allowing the key to be inserted into the slot. Then the handle would turn further to the right pulling back the bolt. Typically the locks are right up against the outer door plate, facilitating drilling into them. I won’t say picking is impossible but getting it open without drilling is not likely to happen. Unfortunately, unless you know exactly where to put the hole(s), it is easy to make a mess of the lock. Also, if you are not properly equipped with a scope, this job may prove overly difficult. Adding to the difficulty, is that the locks are typically buried underneath the insulation, making removal of the lock a real pain once the safe is open. If at all possible, identifying the safe and lock are the first steps. Strip the paint off to see if the original paint has the maker on it. I know of one possible patented lock that may be what you have. I will post it later. Doug

goldpro

Thank you kindly for all the info Doug. I’ll see if I can come up with a Makers name. I look forward to any additional info you may provide. Tom

Doug MacQueen

Here is the patent that I was thinking of but the key placement is not the same. However, I do believe yours will be similar in idea. On this lock the handle is turned right to insert the key and then back left to drop the levers down onto key and continue left to retract the bolt. Hopefully this will help…a little. Doug

goldpro

Thanks for that image Doug. Looks like the key aligns all 5 or 6 vertical levers and then the tab on the locking bolt can move horizontally into the slot in the levers. If I put twisting pressure on the handle shaft while picking I may be able to open it if that’s how it really works. I imagine the tab and the levers will have serrated edges to make it difficult to pick. I scraped off some more paint flecks but I think I’m going to need some chemicals to get the very old beige paint off. The newer white paint flakes off pretty easily. I’m guessing the makers name would be on the “middle panel” just right of the handle shaft. I’ll keep you posted. Tom

goldpro

I got it open. I was able to pick it open using the info Doug supplied. I yanked to door open fighting the old paint that had it stuck and found……another inner ⅜″ plate steel door also locked. so I picked that open too. Inside there were lots of old cancelled cheques from 1978, a small open cash box with nothing in it, and 2 miwa keys. Someone had chizeled out almost all the old concrete/plaster that was inside the door and replaced it with pink fiberglass house insulation mixed in with layers of tin foil. very strange…I guess they were trying to preserve the fire retarding effect. Anyway it made taking the lock out very easy. It has 5 large brass levers, 4 activated by the cuts on the key and one that rises to the correct height when you turn the handle. No serrated edges anywhere. All heavy cast parts in the lock casing. I don’t know if the 2 doors are Keyed alike yet. The inner lock was the same type and construction. The inner wood box is somewhat butchered and there was a plywood shelf up high. I never did find a makers name anywhere. This will be a fun restoration project whenever I get around to it and I may go with a S&G comb lock instead of the key. I didn’t have my camera with me but I’ll post some pics when I can. Tom

goldpro

Here’s some pics of it opened. Thanks again Doug.

Doug MacQueen

Good job on that. And a 2fer to boot. I would hesitate to install a newer lock on that antique. There are just not that many safes from that era still around. Better to invest the time and money into putting a quality and historically correct paint job. Thanks for those lock pictures. Doug

sbellios

Bravo! I suppose Doug was right again.

BHG

I apologize for bumping an older thread, but I was wondering what type of key a lock like this uses.

goldpro

I haven’t found a blank for it.
It has to be thin, tall, and long.
I haven’t gotten around to finding a suitable piece of
metal to fashion into a key yet.

Tom