Help with York Safe & Co safe.

NUTNDUN

Hi,
I am new to the site and am trying to look for information on the safe that was left here at our house by the previous owner. It is a York Safe and it is fairly large and heavy as I believe they all are. The front door was left open with the pins extended so it can’t close all the way. I have no idea what the combination is. It also has a second inner door which looks like it has a key hole for a regular sized key like a house door key maybe.

I have pics and will attach them to the post. It has some nice decoration to it. There is some paint missing as well as some rust but I think it would clean up really nice. Would love to get it open all the way and figure out what the combination is so it could be used.

Dean Nickel

Well the good news is that it is open. That is the expensive part. The lock is the round thing on the inside of the door. If you have a mechanical mind it isn’t that hard to figure out but if you don’t you could call a locksmith and ask for a combo change on a hand change safe lock and they would be able to set the combo to it.

Now if you decide to take on figuring it your self here is a strong tip to keep you out of trouble. Try the combination 5 times with the door OPEN before you close that door. That way if it fails for any reason it will be easy and cheap to get help or figure out why you are having a problem. I try the combo 5 times each and every time I change a safe lock combo, and I do it for a living.

Arcade Al

As long as you can open that inner panel from the outer door it should be easy enough to recover or reset the combination?

Is the inner door (with the key lock) locked closed?

NUTNDUN

Halflock wrote
Well the good news is that it is open. That is the expensive part. The lock is the round thing on the inside of the door. If you have a mechanical mind it isn’t that hard to figure out but if you don’t you could call a locksmith and ask for a combo change on a hand change safe lock and they would be able to set the combo to it.

Now if you decide to take on figuring it your self here is a strong tip to keep you out of trouble. Try the combination 5 times with the door OPEN before you close that door. That way if it fails for any reason it will be easy and cheap to get help or figure out why you are having a problem. I try the combo 5 times each and every time I change a safe lock combo, and I do it for a living.

Thank you for the information. I am pretty good with mechanical things. I am guessing the cover on the back side of the front door needs to come off which has four screws holding it on to be able to see the workings of the lock and figure out the combination?

[unknown]

NUTNDUN

Arcade Al wrote
Is the inner door (with the key lock) locked closed?

Yes that is the sad part. That inner door is locked and closed. Not sure what I am going to do with being able to open it. I don’t remember ever finding any keys here at the house that might have been to that lock.

[unknown]

Arcade Al

NUTNDUN wrote
Thank you for the information. I am pretty good with mechanical things. I am guessing the cover on the back side of the front door needs to come off which has four screws holding it on to be able to see the workings of the lock and figure out the combination?

That’s the first step yes. As long as it will come off with the bolts not fully withdrawn - I can’t see why not.

NUTNDUN wrote
Yes that is the sad part. That inner door is locked and closed. Not sure what I am going to do with being able to open it. I don’t remember ever finding any keys here at the house that might have been to that lock.

That is a shame… you say it looks like a front door lock but do you have a good close up pic of it for identification?

[unknown] [unknown]

NUTNDUN

Arcade Al wrote
That is a shame… you say it looks like a front door lock but do you have a good close up pic of it for identification?

I went down quick and took a pic of the inner door lock. It reminds me of a key lock you would find on a tool box.

[unknown]

Arcade Al

NUTNDUN wrote
I went down quick and took a pic of the inner door lock. It reminds me of a key lock you would find on a tool box.

If it’s a wafer type or even pin tumblers then I would imagine it won’t be massively difficult to pick…

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

Although determining or changing the combination is not difficult to do for someone experienced, there are aspects of the process that are not at all obvious to the novice, especially if the lock is worn. My suggestion would be to find a lock or safe tech who is familiar with the old hand change locks. It shouldn’t cost more than around $100 unless you are in LA or NYC. And they may be able to pick the inside lever lock if you tell them about it ahead of time. Most U.S. locksmiths and safe techs are not equipped for lever lock picking. Nice safe and definitely an old one, late 1880’s or 1890’s. Doug

NUTNDUN

I appreciate all of the information so far. I am going to try and do some research on who the original owner would have been according to the G.W. Gross across the top.

I will definitely get a locksmith to pick the inner lock and key it for me. I will probably have them get the combination and / or reset the combo on the main door. My one coworker was looking for a bigger safe and I mentioned that we had one but I had never checked it out since moving in when we had moved it against the wall.

Now my interest is peaked especially knowing it is a York safe and I would like it in working order and I plan on using it now.

NUTNDUN

I have some good news. I am one step closer to getting the safe in working condition. I was able to figure out the combination. I took the wheels off the lock and than removed the panel from the back of the door and after studying it some I was able to figure out the rotations and the combo.

I am going to call a locksmith tomorrow to see about having the inner lock picked. I tried messing with it a little bit but I don’t want to mess it up. I don’t know what the options will be on a key lock that old on being able to get it re-keyed or if it would be better to have a whole new lock put in it.

I am going to clean up the combo lock and give it a little lube. It works pretty good as is but I would prefer to take care of it so I know it works well. It was a 5 number combo with the 5th not really mattering other than to drop the arm or gate. Not sure what it is called. Going to attach some pics of the lock.

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

The locksmith should be able to fit a key so you shouldn’t have to rekey or replace.

From a terminology point of view, the little arm is called the Fence and the opening it falls into in the wheels is called the Gate.
BBE.

NUTNDUN

On another note from what I could see shining a light into the lock on the inner door. From the comparisons that I see of what a wafer or pin lock is I don’t think it is either one of those but I could be wrong. I think it might be more of a skeleton key with a center point to insert into the back hole to help keep it centered? There are three spring loaded discs (for lack of better term). There is one at the top and two at the bottom. The outer slot will rotate completely around not dependent of the insides.

Dean Nickel

I would guess that to be a lever lock and not a wafer or pin lock. So the locksmith you call should be asked if they can pick/fit keys to a lever lock. Not all can so do ask, quite a few younger locksmiths don’t learn this skill in the US anymore. If they say it “Has to be drilled” you can say no and call someone else.

If the lock has failed would be the only reason I would drill in a situation (Old antique) like that…. but the only way to know for sure is if you had the key.

Doug MacQueen

Since it is obvious you are going to attempt to pick the lock, the fact the outer slot rotates around indicates there is no shoe in the lock. This means you have to apply the needed torque directly on the bolt down inside the key way. These inner locks on 1800’s U.S. safes are almost always lever locks. Good luck. Doug

NUTNDUN

Halflock wrote
I would guess that to be a lever lock and not a wafer or pin lock. So the locksmith you call should be asked if they can pick/fit keys to a lever lock. Not all can so do ask, quite a few younger locksmiths don’t learn this skill in the US anymore. If they say it “Has to be drilled” you can say no and call someone else.

If the lock has failed would be the only reason I would drill in a situation (Old antique) like that…. but the only way to know for sure is if you had the key.

Thanks for the help and I will definitely find a locksmith that could pick it without drilling.

Doug MacQueen wrote
Since it is obvious you are going to attempt to pick the lock, the fact the outer slot rotates around indicates there is no shoe in the lock. This means you have to apply the needed torque directly on the bolt down inside the key way. These inner locks on 1800’s U.S. safes are almost always lever locks. Good luck. Doug

I am going to attempt to pick it myself but definitely be gentle with it because I don’t want to damage anything. After doing some research on the workings of a lever lock I actually don’t think it will be too hard to pick unless the levers contact the bolt at the same time. I think it is a three lever lock from what I could see looking in. I just gotta figure out where the bolt is in relation to the levers to put tension on it while moving the levers. At least I think my understanding of it is correct.

I am going to mess with it this weekend. If I am not able to get it I will call around to the local locksmiths on Monday to get someone to pick it.

Would the key have had something that resembled a cloverleaf shape for the handle?

[unknown] [unknown]

NUTNDUN

I had a chance to mess with picking the lock tonight. I got lucky and had it open in about 25 minutes. Sadly there was nothing left behind other than a sticky note. Which was addressed to the previous owner of the house and with it being a sticky note means he was in it up to the 1990’s.

I am going to take all the locks to the locksmith and have keys made to fit them. Should be a good bit cheaper that way.

Here are some pics of the inside of the safe:

NUTNDUN

On another note. Can someone point me in the right direction of who to contact to see about the value of the safe? I’m not too concerned about the value as I don’t plan on selling it but would still be interested in finding out what it might be worth.

Arcade Al

Nice interior, and well done for picking it open.
Were the inner box and drawers already unlocked when you opened it?

NUTNDUN

Arcade Al wrote
Nice interior, and well done for picking it open.
Were the inner box and drawers already unlocked when you opened it?

Yes, the inner locks were already unlocked which was nice. I have the lock for the inner door and the lock for the metal compartment at the top left at the locksmith to get keys made up. I took the combination lock completely apart and cleaned it up and lubed with new graphite. I should have the keys from the locksmith this weekend. I would love to get it up out of the basement and on the first floor of the house but I don’t know that I would want that kind of weight on the wood floors.

[unknown]