One King West, Toronto

wylk · 2012-03-10T05:37:00+00:00

A Toronto hotel, One King West, includes a former bank (Dominion Bank, 1914). One floor below the main level there is a large vault with a 4-foot-thick door: It is peculiar because the bolts can be seen but the boltwork is hidden (additionally there are only 20 bolts instead of the more common 24). The only other one I’ve seen like this is in the Federal Reserve Bank in Cleveland (which has 16 bolts) and is made by York. So, tentatively, the Toronto vault is probably a York? I haven’t run across any patents for this style of boltwork. Can anyone help?

VaultDoors

timelocks wrote
The time lock on this vault was originally a Sargent & Greenleaf Model M. It has since been altered to accept modern and much smaller Swiss movements. The original configuration would have looked like this example

Which vault - One King West or the Industrial Trust Bank?

[unknown]

timelocks

This was based on the photo from the Industrial Trust Bank of Rhode Island. I have no idea if the photo is indeed from that bank, but from the photo I can say it is a converted S&G Quad Model N (later 6405) originally equipped with S&G’s ‘M’ sized movements, now with what appears to be contemporary Swiss timers, one with a white dial and three with black dials. A shame there was no effort to match up the dials, a simple task. As for the conversion, this is understandable as the servicing of the original M sized movements is now difficult as these timers were never made in large numbers and replacement parts are very difficult obtain. For the sake of reliability the bank has to turn to either a modification of the time lock itself, thus preserving the rest of the bolt work linkages, or a new time lock requiring a more complicated and expensive reworking of the bolt work on the door.

VaultDoors

timelocks wrote
This was based on the photo from the Industrial Trust Bank of Rhode Island…

Here is a closer view of that time lock:

[unknown]

timelocks

Thanks, for the photo, yes this confirms my statement. A S&G Quad N, bottom release. You can see an original on my website,

wylk

VaultDoors - some time ago you had a presentation on vault door anatomy. But it seems to have disappeared. The Dropbox link says the page doesn’t exist, and Flickr says I don’t have permission to view the album.

Is there some new place where it exists?

Doug MacQueen

I always hated seeing timelocks that had been converted to modern movements. Pre Great Depression timelocks were still on the 72 hour standard. At some time after WWII 120 hour became the standard with Diebold ,Mosler and Yale timelocks. In my area, Diebold was dominant and Yale Bank Lock had already been absorbed by Diebold I believe, so Diebold 120 hr. conversions were not uncommon.

timelocks

While 120 hour movements became more the standard after WWII, not all were conversions. Both Mosler and Diebold made these as OEM, I have examples here: http://www.my-time-machines.net/mosler_34.htm, and here: http://www.my-time-machines.net/diebold_4_mvt_type3.htm .

A lot of conversions from OEM to the new Swiss movements are YUK! But a few were done with some finesse. Andy Kotas was one such converter who specialized in the conversion of S&G time locks that were made prior to their adoption of modular movements. Here is a page dedicated to his work: http://www.my-time-machines.net/sg_2_mvt_modified.htm. His style is recognizable and he numbered his work. I can’t say for sure, but I believe he was also authorized by insurers against lockouts, another testament to his work.

I’m sure there were others, and I have other examples of conversions, some better than others, but I collected them because they are an important factor in the history of time locks, keeping them relevant in the absence of a complete bolt rework as well as the fact that I’m simply a compulsive collector. 🙁-:

wylk

Here is an example of an OEM conversion. This is a Herring Hall Marvin door made after they were acquired by Diebold, originally for the Rocky Mountain Bank in Fort Collins, Colorado (around 1966). An image from a few years ago seems to show a clear replacement of the original lock, given the large adapter plate -

But an image of the door shortly after the bank opened shows the same arrangement -

My guess is that the door was made for time locks that were no longer available, hence the factory fitted a more contemporary unit before shipping to the customer.

Doug MacQueen

Huh, a compulsive collector of timelock conversions. Timelocks I have one with your name written all over it. A Mosler with round bottom 96 hr. Yale movements formerly owned by John Erroll. Now if I could only reduce the picture size.

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