Remington Sherman Round Door at Bobby Vans

Doug MacQueen

Here are some more pictures. Doug

2buy1

wylk

On the Remington & Sherman:

An interesting detail is that the large flange nuts (on the outer ring, see 4th image) are keyed in place with small screws. Obviously you don’t want the nuts to back out. In the early 1900s you didn’t have Loctite. But to me there are two questions. First, how do you keep the screws from backing out. Second, how do you adjust the nuts/studs so that the keyway for the screw is in the right place?

I also notice those studs appear to be center drilled, implying they were turned in a lathe between centers as part of their manufacturing.

wylk

2buy1 wrote
Untitled 1

This restaurant (Trinity Place) in NYC is claimed to have originally been the US Realty Bank (which I can’t find much about), with a vault built by Mosler ca. 1905-1907, and two 35-ton doors. From the pictures it appears both combination locks have been replaced with contemporary locks, or at least the dials have been replaced.

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

Regarding the locking set screws on the Remington Sherman, the nuts are tightened down and then drilled and tapped for the set screws. There are numerous examples where this technique was used and occasionally you will find the setscrews backing out but until the would fall out the secured nut or bolt would remain secure. Ever since the introduction of timelocks on bank doors in the latter 1800’s there was ususally a periodic maintenance service to maintain the doors. Mossman, the originator of the Mossman Collection in NYC had just such a business and his vault inspection stickers have been found here in Cleveland, Ohio. Doug

wylk

Doug MacQueen wrote
… the nuts are tightened down and then drilled and tapped for the set screws.

That was one of my guesses but it has the side-effect that each nut is specific to a particular stud, so if even a partial disassembly is done, you’d have to keep track very carefully. But such a task seems very unlikely. It might be a problem for somebody doing a detailed restoration?

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

You make a good point but alluding back to the workmanship of the era I doubt much thought was given to the possible restoration of that door down the road. Doug

Doug MacQueen

Like I said, quality of workmanship. It seems Remington Sherman started when the Herring Hall Marvin merger took place and both were from the Herring company with Sherman being a partner for a period when the company was known as Herring Farrel and Sherman. Doug

wylk

Also at Bobby Van’s is this rectangular door. I can’t recognize its manufacturer though one might assume Remington & Sherman. Any ID on this? I didn’t see any match in the pile of patents I’ve accumulated.

Some things to note: First, the lock wheel packs and bolts have been removed. Second, look at the door bolts on the hinge side, they look unevenly retracted. This could be a side-effect of a forceful attempt at closing, or just a side-effect of something done to disable the door.

Doug MacQueen

There were a couple rectangular doors and they were Remington Sherman. There was some work? done on these. Doug

wylk

Another question about the large outer flange nuts. It seems odd to me that they appear this way. Nearly all other hardware (under the glass) is covered with some sort of brass finial. Is it possible that the outer nuts were also originally covered (and that somebody ran off with the finials because they are brass)?

wylk

Back in late 2011 there was a brief discussion about set screws locking the large flange nuts. I ran across some stock images of a nice York “cam-plate” door though I don’t know where it is. There are several examples of set screws. The locking bolts use a set screw on the flange of the nuts; the combination locks use a set screw adjacent to the main screw; the linkage uses a set screw through the top of the nut. Also notice all the alarm wiring (which is a little loose because, it appears, the glass is gone).

Chubby

All the old Chubb doors had those set screws.

wylk

Chubby wrote
All the old Chubb doors had those set screws.

Good close-up images of doors are hard to find, here is the only Chubb image I have that is good enough to show set screws –

This was posted in another thread (http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/2800-York-Round-Bank-Door/page2). If you view it at full scale it can be seen there are set screws on the four locks’ bolts but not on the door’s locking bolts and not on the linkage. The striking similarity to a York door is apparent. Also, note the circular-slide-rule calculator for setting the time locks complete with S&G logo.

[unknown]