Hibbard Rodman Ely or Manganese Steel Safe Co. of New York

Doug MacQueen · 2011-03-06T15:41:04+00:00

As far as I can tell so far H-R-E was in business from about 1898 to 1903 or 04 when the company underwent a name change to the Manganese Steel Safe Co. of New York. Funny in that it remained a corporation of New Jersey. There may be more to the change or it may have only been for marketing purposes. Hibbard was definitely still involved but Sumner Ely did start Ely Norris not long after that though. Manganese Steel Safe was later bought out by Taylor Iron and Steel Co. (TISCO) about 1909. TISCO was the maker of the HRE castings and as far I as know the Manganese Steel Safe castings. I am including two 1901 Hibbard vault door patents. Doug See “ebay round vault door question” in the Valuation section

wylk

A surviving HRE vault exists at the Adirondack Trust Company (http://www.adirondacktrust.com) , 473 Broadway, Saratoga Springs, New York (in business since 1902). The image is from a nice article at http://blog.timesunion.com/saratogaseen/architecture-473-broadway/10195/ which describes the architecture and history. I’ll guess the paint and elk’s head are not original but the combination locks look OK.

wylk

The Montclair Bank and Trust was at 598 Valley Road, Montclair, New Jersey. This included an HRE/Manganese vault. The space has been many things since then such as in 2006 a “Laugh Out Loud - Life is Good, Genuine Neighborhood Store” (http://www.baristanet.com/2006/10/laugh-out-loud-life-is-good-in-baristaville/). That didn’t last too long, the door was for sale on eBay around March 5 of 2011; I don’t recall if it sold, so it might still be there. Are there any New Jersey vaultophiles who want to take a peek? These images are from the auction. Notice that the handles are cranks, while at Saratoga Springs they are wheels.

Doug MacQueen

Here is cool picture showing the HRE patented vault panels being installed. Tough job there.

Tom Gordon

Brilliant pictures!

Ryan Krakowsky

The Montclair, NJ vault is still there, but with a new paint scheme. I took this on March 25, 2013.

wylk

There are various accounts of the history of the Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (HRE), with a lot of information earlier in this thread on antique-locks. I thought I’d share what I’ve been able to find so far.

The Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company was a partnership of Henry Deming Hibbard, former army Captain Samuel Rodman (who also served as an explosives expert for the Treasury Department), and Sumner A. Ely. According to http://slic.njstatelib.org/slic_files/searchable_publications/corp/NJCORPn297.html it formed in New Jersey on November 4, 1899 (date of filing the certificate, which might be a little later or earlier than actual incorporation) with Henry D. Hibbard listed as agent, and the name was changed to Manganese Steel Safe Company on March 9, 1903. Several web-based business directories claim it was officially formed (in New York, at least) March 20, 1900 (e.g. http://businessprofiles.com/details/hibbard-rodman-ely-safe-company/NY-8999) using Samuel Rodman’s name and an address of 253 Broadway. Confusingly, http://slic.njstatelib.org/slic_files/searchable_publications/corp/NJCORPn401.html states the Manganese Steel Safe and Vault Company was organized April 8, 1909 (Frank H. Bucklin, agent) then changed name to Manganese Steel Safe Company on October 1, 1909; this is either incorrect or they changed name a few times during liquidation. Manganese Steel dissolved around 1909, selling their assets to Mosler, see http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=FA0E16FF3A5512738DDDA80994DB405B898CF1D3 (March 10, 1909) and http://books.google.com/books?id=D_I7AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA963&dq=%22manganese+steel+safe+company%22&hl=en&ei=htNzTeXqGNOhtwez2q39Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22manganese%20steel%20safe%20company%22&f=false although Rodman tried to contest the action. A contradictory account states Taylor Iron and Steel Company (TISCO) acquired Manganese Steel Safe Company in 1909 (http://books.google.com/books?id=aSEqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA315&lpg=PA315&dq=%22manganese+steel+safe%22&source=bl&ots=_0BIlmP01s&sig=Fdm2Eoc-0OacUPHXbj220FET0EE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l29nUcjbMITuyAHlwoGYDQ&ved=0CH4Q6AEwDA#v=onepage&q=%22manganese%20steel%20safe%22&f=false); I suppose it’s possible that Mosler acquired the safe and vault business while TISCO acquired the steel manufacturing plant.

Sumner Ely apparently left the company and partnered with John W. Norris (a successful west-coast salesman) to form the Ely-Norris Safe Company in 1903 (which probably prompted HRE’s name change), and ending business around 1920 (Norris himself had partnered with Diebold circa 1874-1876 as Diebold-Norris); see http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=146280525. Ely-Norris may have also provided manufacturing service to York, and the two may have merged (or York absorbed Ely-Norris, a 1917 advertisement at http://books.google.com/books?id=_Q4hAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1328&lpg=PA1328&dq=%22ely-norris%22+%22york+safe%22&source=bl&ots=y09-N4L7Ho&sig=bq-SfYUOmP7h6FMU_CJS2HpkcNI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IihfUfK_Jom6yAGmpoDwDQ&ved=0CFwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=%22ely-norris%22%20%22york%20safe%22&f=false touts York as being the exclusive manufacturer of Ely Norris safes).

Other references:[INDENT]“The Burglar-Proof Safe”, The Bankers’ Magazine (October 1905, volume 71, page 544) discusses the Manganese Steel Safe Company and their products. http://books.google.com/books?id=7m49AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA544&lpg=PA544&source=bl&ots=qvuEI3NSt9&sig=8jIekIo-2j2iz9a0COX6SCQwswE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l29nUcjbMITuyAHlwoGYDQ&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&f=false

[/INDENT]
[INDENT]
Advertisement, Pittsburgh Press, April 29, 1905 page 15, for Manganese Steel Safe Company http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19050429&id=tAgbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qUgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5569,5077946
[/INDENT]

wylk

Based on patents, Henry Hibbard was the main inventive force behind the company. Initially these were iron/steel patents with the Taylor Iron and Steel Company (Tisco), then the Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company, which then became the Manganese Steel Safe Company. Later patents dealt with the iron and steel business. The following list includes a few related patents by others.

486,714 “Apparatus for Casting Pig-Iron” 2/24/1891, /11/22/1892, Hibbard (Pittsburgh), no assignment
575,548 “Stamp Shoe and Die and Method of Making Same” 6/19/1895, 1/19/1897, Hibbard (High Bridge, NJ), Taylor Iron and Steel Company (High Bridge, NJ)
575,549 “Crusher Head” 10/2/1895, 1/19/1897, Hibbard (High Bridge, NJ), Taylor Iron and Steel Company (High Bridge, NJ)
578,637 “Wheel” (car wheels, pulleys, etc.) 7/6/1896, 3/9/1897, Hibbard (High Bridge, NJ), Taylor Iron and Steel Company (High Bridge, NJ)
585,573 “Stamp Shoe or Die” 6/19/1895, 9/28/1896, 6/29/1897, Hibbard (High Bridge, NJ), Taylor Iron and Steel Company (High Bridge, NJ)
662,428 “Safe” (thick on-piece cast) 5/7/1898, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (North Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (High Bridge and NYC)
662,429 “Safe” (burglar-proof nitroglycerin resistant) 11/14/1898, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (North Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (High Bridge and NYC)
662,430 “Vault” 3/9/1900, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
662,431 “Plate for Safes or Vaults”, 3/9/1900, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
662,432 “Safe” (multipart), 3/9/1900, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
662,433 “Fastening for Safe or Vault Plates”, 3/28/1900, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
662,434 “Safe-Hinge”, 5/7/1898, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
662,435 “Locking Mechanism for Safes or Vaults”, 5/12/1900, 11/27/1900, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
669,925 “Process of Toughening Manganese Steel”, 8/6/1897, 3/12/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
679,371 “Fastening for Safe or Vault Plates”, 10/31/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,372 “Safe or Vault”, 10/31/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,373 “Plates for Safes or Vaults”, 10/31/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,374 “Bolt Mechanism for Safe or Vault Doors”, 10/31/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,375 “False Front for Safes or Vaults”, 10/31/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,376 “Safe or Vault Front”, 10/31/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,377 “Safe or Vault Hinge”, 11/2/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,378 “Locking Mechanism for Safes or Vaults”, 11/2/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,379 “Safe or Vault Door Bolting Mechanism”, 11/2/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,380 “Safe or Vault”, 11/2/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,381 “Cellular Safe”, 11/2/1900, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
679,382 “Safe or Vault”, 2/20/1901, 7/30/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
684,547 “Reversible Grinding Machine”, 5/9/1901, 10/15/1901, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
691,942 “Duplex Locking Mechanism for Safes or Vaults”, 7/27/1901, 1/28/1902, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
708,041 “Safe or Vault Door”, 3/11/1902, 9/2/1902, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
713,879 “Safe or Vault Door”, ⅚/1902, 11/18/1902, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
713,880 “Fastening for Safe or Vault Plates”, 3/7/1902, 11/18/1902, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
713,881 “Fastening for Safe or Vault Plates”, 3/11/1902, 11/18/1902, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Hibbard-Rodman-Ely Safe Company (NYC)
718,760 “Furnace for Treating Metals”, 2/18/1901, 1/20/1903, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
741,335 “Grinding Machine”, 5/24/1902, 10/13/1903, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
741,336 “Grinding Machine”, 6/21/1902, 10/13/1903, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
741,337 “Grinding Machine”, 12/4/1902, 10/13/1903, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
758,069 “Vault or Safe” (semi-flush fastening), 2/11/1903, 9/22/1903, 4/26/1904, Hibbard and Walter Gaston (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
771,704 “Safe or Vault”, 2/23/1904, 10/4/1904, Walter Brinton (Highbridge, NJ), no assignment. Though unassigned, this date (October 4, 1904) is seen in images of Manganese Steel safes and the patent image is very similar
788,085 “Dogging Mechanism for Safe or Vault Bolting Mechanisms”, 2/4/1904, 4/25/1905, Orlando W. Bedell (Princess Bay, NY) and Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
788,103 “Safe or Vault”, 8/19/1903, 4/25/1905, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
788,104 “Actuating Locking Means for Safes or Vaults”, 9/15/1903, 4/25/1905, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
788,105 “Bolting Mechanism for Safes or Vaults”, 10/16/1903, 4/25/1905, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
788,106 “Actuator Locking Mechanism for Safes or Vaults”, 11/28/1903, 4/25/1905, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
788,107 “Actuator Locking Means for Safes or Vaults”, 12/4/1903, 4/25/1905, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ) and William C. Peck (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
792,072 “Bolt Dogging Means for Safes or Vaults”, 4/11/1904, 6/13/1905, Orvey Price and Walter Gaston (Plainfield, NJ), TISCO (Highbridge, NJ), based on Hibbard patents
793,072 “Rotary Door Safe”, 8/19/1903, 6/27/1905, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ) and Wilbur Macey Stone (Brooklyn), Manganese Steel (NYC)
793,073 “Safe or Vault”, 10/16/1903, 6/27/1905, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
793,105 “Rotary Door Safe”, 8/25/1903, 6/27/1905, Sydney L. Smith (Bayonne, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
817,774 “Safe or Vault Door Seating Machine”, 9/27/1904, 4/17/1906, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
826,607 “Safe Door Locking Mechanism”, 5/23/1904, 7/24/1906, Orvey Price (Plainfield, NJ), TISCO (High Bridge, NJ) based on Hibbard’s designs and patent 792,072
840,490 “Vault”, 5/3/1906, ⅛/1907, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
860,378 “Armored Defense”, 10/8/1903, 7/16/1907, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
885,248 “Process of Utilizing the Metalloids in Crude Iron for Reducing Metallic Iron”, 3/23/1905, 4/21/1908, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
903,281 “Combined Reinforced Door-frame and Vestibule Member”, ½/1908, 11/10/1908, Samuel W. Fish (Plainfield, NJ), assigned to Manganese Steel Safe Company of Plainfield, not the usual NYC. It references Hibbard’s patent 840,490. Fish himself had many other patents which were assigned to TISCO.
916,444 “Safe or Vault Door”, 5/25/1903, 3/30/1909, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), Manganese Steel (NYC)
954,185 “Method of Making Manganese Steel”, 4/17/1909, ⅘/1910, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
1,018,906 “Ingot Mold”, 6/2/1906, 2/27/1912, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
1,047,052 “Reaction Apparatus”, 4/7/1908, 12/10/1912, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
1,362,532 “Furnace”, 11/1/1919, 12/14/1920, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), no assignment
1,459,533 “Puddling Furnace”, 5/11/1921, 6/19/1923, Hibbard (Plainfield, NJ), assigned to the Hibbard Process Corporation (NYC)

Sumner Ely had a few patents of his own but they all appear after his departure from HRE.

wylk

I found another HRE/Manganese vault, this time in Oneonta, New York.The Wilber National Bank was founded in 1874 and around 1906 they constructed a building at around 237 Main Street. This postcard image is supposed to be from 1908:

In later years they progressively built additions northeast on Main Street but in 2010 were acquired by Community Bank. Additions include an impressive 1929 building at 245 Main. Whether this vault is still there is unknown, and I can’t help but wonder what’s hiding in the 1929 section.

Bill61402

I am fascinated by this period of safes and vaults. How did the manganese vaults stack up against the armor plate vaults? Seems many of each during this 1905 period. Were there any merits to one vs the other? Were any particularly favored by large institutions. My research has indicated the manganese vaults were very expensive due to materials and assembly. Thanks for any info.

Bill

Doug MacQueen

Manganese steel combined hardness and toughness, which was well suited for use in cannonball safes in giving superior protection against nitro attacks, being the biggest threat in 1905. I suspect that the much larger vault doors were considerably more difficult to breach with nitro, therefore the use of manganese steel was not nearly as popular. And it wasn’t long before oxy-acetylene became the tool of choice, effectively ending the superiority of manganese steel. Doug

2buy1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271234270222

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