Need info, ca. 1900 Cary bank safe? 4 door...

safetraveler

I have just acquired what i believe to be a Cary safe, from upstate NY. It was located in a bank since 1902. It is a four equal size compartment safe, with independent locking doors, on crane hinges. Two of the dials say Cary, the other two say S&G. Three of the doors are open, one is locked shut. Of the three open doors, two of the locks are original, though the wheel packs are gone, the third is a replacement lock(the gold colored one), maybe S&G. The fourth door seems to have a complete lock, with three wheels from what i can tell by feel. I need any info that you can give me, there is a serial number, it is in one of the pictures attached, there are more pics, the max attachments is 10, so let me know if you want to see more and i will post them.

Thanks,
Tim

Paul Prescott

Hi.

Welcome to the site. Nice safe. Feel free to post a reply to your own message with more pictures should they be necessary. I can’t help with your problem apart to say that the locks don’t look to be S&G, at least not std models - although they could be a special design made only for Cary ? The only major point re maker is that S&G was not keen on making hand change locks as Yale had the patent and every lock required them to pay Yale a royalty …..

Re opening the locked compartment, manipulation maybe possible, depends of the quality of the lock & amount of play in the indirect drive. Drilling and scoping is probably far more certain & practical, and if done with care no great detriment to the safe.

safetraveler

Thanks for the input. I think you are right about drilling and scoping, i’ve spent the last 3 or 4 nights in the garage with headphones, getting nowhere. The lock may be old, but it is very well made, something i didn’t expect was the ridges in the wheel packs, i can hear them in the cam region. I am new to this, in case you couldn’t tell 🙂

Here are some more pics if anyone is interested in looking, or can pass on any more info.

Thanks, Tim

Paul Prescott

That last lock is an S&G, no doubt about it. What is on the dial on the locked compartment ?

safetraveler

the dial on the gold S&G lock is an S&G dial. The dials on the silver original locks are Cary dials. I just got the ¼″ hole through the back of the safe on the locked compartment. I hit ½″ of mild steel, then ½″ of hardened. With my borescope i could see that this lock is identical to the S&G in the last photo, incidentally, the dial is also S&G. So my next step is to remove the backplate and, judging from the construction of the other S&G lock on the open compartment, i can just hook the deadbolt and pull it out? I will let you know what happens(and if there’s anything inside).

Thanks,
Tim

safetraveler

Ok, so i got the locked compartment open. Nothing in there🙁 But i did start removing the layers of paint from the side where the design was located, and I now have a complete pinstripe pattern. I am wondering if this pattern means anything to anyone out there as to the manufacturer of this safe? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tim

safetraveler

Ok, so someone informed me that the silver locks, which are original to the safe, and have cary dials, look to be Cary C-3 locks. I also found the patent from the date on the dial. Here is a copy of the original patent from 1890 in PDF if anyone out there is interested.

Tim

gjh-goehler-1890-safe-door.pdf

215kB

safetraveler

This safe is up for sale on eBay. Anyone interested can check it out here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Antique-Cary-Ba … 7C294%3A50

mercurial

Hi safetraveler,

I see no mention of the fact that this safe has been drilled in the listing, would you be able to clarify how you repaired the hole that was drilled to open the locked compartment?

I am fully aware that a hole can be repaired such that there is little or no impact upon the safe’s security(although I think it can void insurance rating - irrelevant in this case), but I am interested as to how the repair was affected. I’ve seen holes filled with bits of broken files and drill bits, the use of ball bearings, and also the use of special ‘plugs’ made specifically for this purpose.

…mercurial

Paul Prescott

Looking at the post further up the page I would guess he drilled through the back, removed the cap and bolt ?

mercurial

oldlock wrote
Looking at the post further up the page I would guess he drilled through the back, removed the cap and bolt ?

Yes, that is the impression I got from the post further up. I guess once the hole was drilled, and the cap removed, either the bolt was removed, or I guess the gates in the wheels could be read via the scope & the combination dialled.

My query is how the hole itself was repaired.

…mercurial

safetraveler

Good question,

I did drill a ¼″ hole in the back of compartment #2, directly in line with the back plate screw of the lock housing. I have not fixed the hole yet, but I am a welder by trade, so If the the safe does sell, I planned on filling the hole with a solide carbide ¼″ drill bit(the exact same ones used for drilling the hole), about ⅜″ shorter than the depth of the hole and welding up the outside and inside 3/16″ with silicon bronze (Nascar tube frame weld material). This is about a 20 minute job, and it will not detract from the security, or the cosmetic condition of the safe whatsoever. You are correct, the safe is so old there is no insurance ramification, and the drilled spot will be more secure after this procedure then it was to begin with.

Funny thing, this safe is two layers of ½″ steel on all surfaces, the first ½″ is mild steel, took 5 mins, the last ½″ was armor plate. It took $120 dollars in solid carbide drills, including special armor plate drills, and over 3 hours of drilling to get through it.

Thanks for checking it out, sorry i didn’t explain the hole repair earlier.

Tim

mercurial

Tim - Thankyou for the swift and detailed answer!

…mercurial

safetraveler

Tomorrow is the last day for the eBay listing!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi … 0366107972

JackAlsip

what did it sell for?