Unusual 2-tiered Bramah Mordan type key with 19 slots and solid pin

Huw Eastwood

Here’s an unusual one- almost 4 inches long with two tiers. Main stem has 11 slots and the end one has 8. Its pretty large compared to a modern Bramah or even a Cotterill. Does anyone know what type of end caps the nested or tiered keys had? I think it was oldlock who kindly posted pictures of standard Cotterill caps going back a while, but was wondering what style they followed for the unusual tiered keys.

Paul Prescott

Is that a modern key you have made Max ?

The only UK maker that made a 2 tier key that I’ve seen is Mappins Patent and I’ve never seen a dust cap for one.

Huw Eastwood

I knew it wouldn’t fool you oldlock! Yes you’re 100% bang-on, it’s another of my creations. Can’t even claim ‘vintage’ for this one as its only 2 days old! Needs a bit of time to tarnish now and get a bit of patination in the flutes etc.

Interesting that about Mappins, so are tiered, stacked, nested, whatever you want to call them, Bramahs in the mythical ranks? I’ve heard of references to them and assumed them to be extremely rare, perhaps limited down to a few old prototypes or exhibition locks, but have never found out anymore. If they don’t exist then I guess that explains it!

I think my next one might be a copy of the 1787 exhibition key, incidentally the picture on your website has got to be the highest resolution one out there, so that’s much appreciated as there’s not many pics around of what is such a famous lock. Only ever see the key from that one angle so I assume the slots continue in a spiral around the pipe to the farthest point at the tip, and the centre pin is just a guide pin as on the one I made here.

Paul Prescott

I would lay very very long odds that any such keys of Bramah type would be continental. I’ve seen a lot of english bramah (and bramah type) and there has never been a whisper of any such.

As an aside - bramah keys made of brass are very scarce, I think I’ve seen more solid gold keys than brass ones !

mercury

Wow! That is simply beautiful!

Your work never ceases to amaze me, and I’m sure many other members in addition to myself who always enjoy seeing it.

Out of interest, roughly how long did it take you to fabricate that?

Keep up the amazing work,

…Mark

Warren63

MaxVaultage wrote
Here’s an unusual one- almost 4 inches long with two tiers. Main now thats what i call a nice key. Is it off a safestem has 11 slots and the end one has 8. Its pretty large compared to a modern Bramah or even a Cotterill. Does anyone know what type of end caps the nested or tiered keys had? I think it was oldlock who kindly posted pictures of standard Cotterill caps going back a while, but was wondering what style they followed for the unusual tiered keys.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]13809[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]13810[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]13811[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]13812[/ATTACH][/QUkOTE] What a tease. For a second i was in safe key heaven until oldlock sussed you out.. I woulda been bidding for that one on eBay and i’m sure quite a few others would too. I dont really pay much attention to patina because most of my buys are covered in rust and they get polished anyhow. Its a good job your honest Max cos i was green enough to be fooled. Nice one.

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

Really nice one Max, now I guess you’ll have to make a lock to go along with it. I would think an end cap would have a hole in it allowing it to slip over the pin and fit up against the tube. Is there any evidence on how they were cutting Bramah keys in the late 1700’s? Doug

Paul Prescott

Doug MacQueen wrote
Is there any evidence on how they were cutting Bramah keys in the late 1700’s? Doug

Exactly the same way they do today (albeit not with a motorised machine).

[unknown]

Adrian Weber

You nearly got me there :o:

Very nice piece and well done!

Adrian

Doug MacQueen

Oldlock, sorry but I do not know how Bramah keys are cut today. After the painfully tedious method of hand filing several keys, I obtained a small milling machine and a rotary table. Using a tiny end mill I have been able to cut them successfully. I am aware Maudsley made numerous machines for the manufacture of the Bramah locks and keys, but have found nothing regarding the actual pre- 1800 machines he designed. Doug

Timothy

Nice job Max. Wish I could try to make one of those. Yeah I know that a lot of hard work to do that, than the key I make…Timothy….

Huw Eastwood

Thanks very much to all for your comments!

Mercury- I’m not sure how long it took exactly, but probably a few longish days work in total. Since it’s only a display/exhibition key with random depths and spacings on the slots, it was a lot quicker than making one that has to precisely fit the dimensions/tolerances of a working lock.

Warren- always honest me mate!

Doug- at least now if I decide to make the lock to match I can make the sliders to suit the slots on the key and not the other way around!

Adrian- thanks mate and glad to see you’re back with us again- long time no see..

Timothy- thanks mate, this keys probably no harder to make than the blanks you’re hand filing and impressioning, it’s just different because of the machine work- Bramahs locks and keys are a bit more ‘engineered’ than most just because of their design, but this wasn’t difficult, it was just down to time really

thanks again guys 🙁happy):

DJStambo

Exquisite! As a collector of Bramah keys I’d love to have this in my collection. Lovely work Huw.

Huw Eastwood

DJStambo wrote
Exquisite! As a collector of Bramah keys I’d love to have this in my collection. Lovely work Huw.

Cheers! 🙁blush):

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