Submarine key ??

Neilau

I was sent this picture by a friend that knows of my interest in locks.

All I know about it, is that it is supposed to be a picture of a key from a WW11 German submarine.

I don’t know where on the submarine it is from. The front door??

I would love to see the (inside) of the lock that it is from.

If anyone knows anything about it I would be very interested.

If not, enjoy a most unusual key.

Arcade Al

Interesting… I can just imagine the conversation though.

Unterseebootubercapitan Mainwaring: “Vot is das problem?”
Unterseebootuntermenschseeman Pike: “I haf dropped ze unterseebootturenkey in die trinken!”
Unterseebootcapitan: "Verdammerung! Das boot ist sinken! Du bist ein dummer Junge!

🙁rofl):

(Apologies to anyone German or who can actually properly write in German… it’s intended to be tongue-in-cheek)

Chris Belcher

I think that is a bode panzer key.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7m41LA8WsvUC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=bode+panzer+key&source=bl&ots=FDB_cMbc6c&sig=JO-0LJR61GhBhBleBwAIaikwvmw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rVveUsLcB4fKhAfJvoBY&ved=0CEoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=bode%20panzer%20key&f=false

Arcade Al

Chris Belcher wrote
I think that is a bode panzer key.

Certainly looks the same.

In all seriousness, regarding the idea that it was for a submarine - I find that difficult to support myself. I just can’t see the need for such high security for something that was otherwise so well guarded (by men with guns, and by being surrounded by water most of the time!) and even if we assume that the submarine was being used to carry highly secret things, it’s still a stretch for the imagination?

[unknown]

Ian D. Lewis

Arcade Al wrote
Certainly looks the same.

In all seriousness, regarding the idea that it was for a submarine - I find that difficult to support myself. I just can’t see the need for such high security for something that was otherwise so well guarded (by men with guns, and by being surrounded by water most of the time!) and even if we assume that the submarine was being used to carry highly secret things, it’s still a stretch for the imagination?

You’re forgetting to take paranoia into account.

[unknown]

Arcade Al

Ian D. Lewis wrote
You’re forgetting to take paranoia into account.

True. However it’s far superior to anything that we were using in the military over here during the same period, as far as I know, even for very secret stuff? I’m prepared to stand corrected though.

[unknown]

Doug MacQueen

Check out Oliver’s tresoroffnungsblog. Fantastic website. it may help. By the way what has happened to Adrian? Doug

MacGyver101

Doug MacQueen wrote
Check out Oliver’s tresoroffnungsblog. Fantastic website. it may help. By the way what has happened to Adrian? Doug

He’s got some great photos of some very nice locks. He has some photos of a Bode Panzer (which would also be my guess) here.

[unknown]

Chris Belcher

The last time that I saw a Bode Panzer key, was some years ago hanging on a cord around Olivers neck. I aked him why and he repled that it it allowed him to judge peoples knowledge.

Riyame

Well as suggested by another person on another forum, it could have been the key to access an enigma machine. I am sure that they would have wanted the best lock money could buy to protect them from anybody and everybody.

Paul Prescott

The Bode-Panzer Tangential lock (which is what that key is for) were used on the safes on board the u-boats for sure. Also in German embassies of the period.

Arcade Al

oldlock wrote
The Bode-Panzer Tangential lock (which is what that key is for) were used on the safes on board the u-boats for sure. Also in German embassies of the period.

That makes perfect sense, I very nearly queried on-board safes earlier… thanks for the confirmation.
🙁y):

(The idea of a U-Boat having a front door lock is still making me smile though… 🙂-🙂

[unknown]

Neilau

Thanks guys for clearing that up. PS the “front door” was a joke Thanks again.

Arcade Al

Neilau wrote
Thanks guys for clearing that up. PS the “front door” was a joke Thanks again.

It’s certainly amused me today!
🙁clap):

[unknown]

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Arcade Al wrote
It’s certainly amused me today!
🙁clap):

I knew a guy, now deceased, who was a member of the OSS. He once showed me a key like that which he said he had gotten off the only U-boat captured during the war. They had tried to scuttle the boat but weren’t quick enough and US forces took control. It was towed to a place in VA where my friend was asked to open the safe. He did but destroyed the lock in doing so. He said the only thing in the safe was the key he showed me. Later he was asked to go to the closed German embassy in San Francisco to open a similar safe.

Since he had opened the first one he said he knew how to open the second one without damaging the lock and he also had that lock. It was attached to a rather long tube that pulled out and pivoted to the side so the key could be inserted, shoved back into the safe and turned to operate the lock. The safe in SF didn’t have a key inside and naturally the key he had from the U-boat wouldn’t operate the lock from SF.

The only U-boat captured during the war is on display in the Science and Industry museum in Chicago. All evidence of the safe was removed befoer it went on display. So, if that is from a U-boat, and it loks like what I was shown, it is the one I was shown in Alexandria, VA about 1980 or it is from one decommissioned after the war. He did tell me that it was a Protector and not a Tangenital and of course I didn’t know the difference then and maybe he didn’t either. There is a picture of a Protector key in the Vincent Eras book you can compare to.

He also told me that he got to tour the Bode Panzer factory after the war but they didn’t show them the lock and key manufacturing area. If that is the same key, small world isn’t it?
BBE.

[unknown]

Adrian Weber

By the way what has happened to Adrian? Doug

Sorry Doug I had some things to do with our historical society and my own business related things. I will try to be more active again now 🙁mm):

I knew a guy, now deceased, who was a member of the OSS. He once showed me a key like that which he said he had gotten off the only U-boat captured during the war. They had tried to scuttle the boat but weren’t quick enough and US forces took control. It was towed to a place in VA where my friend was asked to open the safe. He did but destroyed the lock in doing so. He said the only thing in the safe was the key he showed me. Later he was asked to go to the closed German embassy in San Francisco to open a similar safe.

Since he had opened the first one he said he knew how to open the second one without damaging the lock and he also had that lock. It was attached to a rather long tube that pulled out and pivoted to the side so the key could be inserted, shoved back into the safe and turned to operate the lock. The safe in SF didn’t have a key inside and naturally the key he had from the U-boat wouldn’t operate the lock from SF.

The only U-boat captured during the war is on display in the Science and Industry museum in Chicago. All evidence of the safe was removed befoer it went on display. So, if that is from a U-boat, and it loks like what I was shown, it is the one I was shown in Alexandria, VA about 1980 or it is from one decommissioned after the war. He did tell me that it was a Protector and not a Tangenital and of course I didn’t know the difference then and maybe he didn’t either. There is a picture of a Protector key in the Vincent Eras book you can compare to.

He also told me that he got to tour the Bode Panzer factory after the war but they didn’t show them the lock and key manufacturing area. If that is the same key, small world isn’t it?
BBE.

The Nazis most likely used the Tangential lock but never on a U-Boot at least I believe that this is just a myth spread around by someone. I have never seen proof of that. But the Nazis also used other locks such as the Protector or the Arnheim Differential. At least this is what I know. The Bode Panzer Tangential was more widely used by banks and also offered to banks regularly and for this piece of information I have written proof. I have an old Bode Panzer brochure in my possession and also information on their prices for their vault doors, vault rooms and locks. I also have an offer for a bank from the 30s where they offer their Tangential lock but also the Kromer Protector. The Nazis had a special version for the Protector as far as I know and may have had a special version for the Tangential too.

Please do not mistake the Bode Panzer Tangential with the Panzer AG four bitted key safe lock. This lock is earlier than the Tangential and was produced at a time before Bode & Troue and the Panzer AG Berlin merged together.

I may add patent numbers later but you can also find them in the book by Graham W. Pulford I believe.

Adrian Weber

BBE’s information was accurate and they probably transported the keys or maybe a whole safe withe their submarines.

The Nazis most likely used the Tangential lock but never on a U-Boot at least I believe that this is just a myth spread around by someone. I have never seen proof of that.

I may be wrong on that assumption at least if someone has evidence for it!

Cliff Forrester

Very interesting post. We do not see these sophisticated keys used by Australian Military, they prefer to use combination locks.

Not sure what was used during Second World War, but have seen Second World War Armouries fitted with S&G Group 1 Combination lock with the silver turn snib in the dial.

Arcade Al

Cliff Forrester wrote
Not sure what was used during Second World War, but have seen Second World War Armouries fitted with S&G Group 1 Combination lock with the silver turn snib in the dial.

That type of S&G combination lock was post war, as far as I know?

[unknown]

wylk

Arcade Al wrote
That type of S&G combination lock was post war, as far as I know?

I would agree, my notes suggest the 8400 series was introduced in 1948. The earliest patent filing date is early 1949. Of course they could have been fitted to armories and such later on. Back to submarines, I do recall seeing an 8400 on a safe in a contemporary US sub in a documentary from around year 2000 or so.

[unknown]