double ended key on ebay

Tom Gordon

231085028052 ebay

What is unusual is that both ends are seemingly identical -what would be the point?
The tip of one end does differ and this may just be a made up key by someone enjoying machining.

oldbiscuit

Tom, look again. They’re not identical, but rather mirror images of each other. It looks to me that they would work from opposite sides of the lock. Mark

Tom Gordon

oldbiscuit wrote
Tom, look again. They’re not identical, but rather mirror images of each other. It looks to me that they would work from opposite sides of the lock. Mark

Hmmm. You are saying that you think each end is not symmetrical. Difficult to be sure from the picture but I think that they are infact symmetrical. If they were not symmetrical would they not make them far less symmetrical than that, to make sure that they only worked from one side?

[unknown]

oldbiscuit

Tom, look at the pictures a little closer. The back side of the blade has a half moon cut in it that runs parallel to the shaft. That would alow it to only fit one way per side of the lock. Mark

Adrian Weber

I agree with mark there Tom, looks just like he said 🙁nod):

Tom Gordon

wel spotted…but the bullet doesnt seem to run the full length of the bit.

oldbiscuit

Tom, I’m not familiar with the terminology on these old keys, what do you consider the bullet? Is that what your calling the groove on the back side of the blade/bit? If it is, I’ve poured over the pictures and I can’t see how you are able to tell if it does or doesn’t go all the way through. As far as the key shaft ends go, I’ll agree there is a slight difference. One end has a grove cut around it, probably to make it easier for whoever used the key to know which end went to which side of the lock without having to study the keyhole before inserting his key. Still the same, it is quite a unique key none the less. Mark

Tom Gordon

Yes the bullet is a thinning of the blade visible at the left hand end of this key. Near to the throat & collar, it is clear.
For it to have a genuine function in allowing the key to be fully inserted past a fixed warding on the case, it would need to go all the way across the two halves of the “bit”. I have trouble seeing that the bullet is on the other half of the “bit”.
Unless the other end of the key has different warding then there is no point having a double ended key because the warded end would open everything that the plain end would.

oldbiscuit

Tom that’s true unless the warding was the shape of the keyhole itself, in which case the key would only fit one way per side, am I making sense? Mark

oldbiscuit

Tom, Look again at the photos, pic three is one end of the key and pic five is the opposite end of the key. One pic shows the end view and the other pic shows the bit from the inside. It looks to me from the pics that the bullet goes clear through. Mark

Tom Gordon

The warding that the bullet cut is designed to pass IS the shape of the keyhole in the lock (where it protrudes into the hole).
The warding allows the warded key to be inserted into it’s mated keyhole but also into the one with no warding so a double key with identical ends, apart from the one end having warding, makes the plain end redundant.
If both ends have different warding then that is another matter.

Tom Gordon

There is more than one picture!!!!!
Yes there is a left handed and a right handed bullet, so that is probably right and no doubt the bullet carries on through the “bit” properly.

Ian D. Lewis

I think its the fact that one end of the key as a undercut just before the end of the key and that make it look slimmer. On closer inspection both ends look to be the same gauge. It does look very much as if this one end of this key fits the inner side of the lock and one end fits the outer side.

Tom Gordon

If you wanted different keys on different sides of the door, you would make the key non symmetrical on the bridgewarding.
Bullet warding is on both cap and case of the lock but not both on either the faceplate or both on the other side of the keyhole, to allow a key to go in from either side.
As I understand it these keys allow someone to have a key which will work two different masterkeyed suites. For instance the servants have one key for their locks, the owner a different one for his locks and the butler has both on a double sided key so that he can go anywhere-well that’s the way we work it in my house :-)
It wa sto overcome the limitations of differs when masterkeying off bridgewarded locks.

Chris Belcher

If this is a genuine key… I think That I would go with Tom’s last post, this key was made to operate two different locks. If you wanted the key to operate a singlle lock from both sides, then all that is needed is to put the bullet ward cut on both sides of the key blade or arrange the keyways to be mirror imaged. I would suspect that this key was made up to operate two locks where the bulleting was was on different sides of the lock’s keyways. However, I suspect that the key is not all that it is made out to be, the reasons being,there appears to be no wear on the key stem between the collars and the shoulders, also, both halves of the key are a different style, and the method of producing the warding of one key blade appears to be different from the other.

Tom Gordon

If you cut the bulletward on both sides of the key then the key would be in two pieces….

Ian D. Lewis

Depending on which way round you use the key the keyhole on the outside plate of the lock would have the the ward on the lefthand side of the lock this means the ward would be on the left hand side of the bridge and there fore if it continues through the lock the ward will then be on the right hand side of the inner plate and the key that enters from the out will not enter from the inside. This key is identical both side and apart from the undercut at the end of one of the sides. This undercut could therefore be a indicater to the user as to which side of the ket is used on which side of the lock. Tom as already mentioned that if the key was warded both side it would fall the bit would fall in half.

Billy B Edwards Jr. CML

Tom Gordon wrote
If you wanted different keys on different sides of the door, you would make the key non symmetrical on the bridgewarding.
Bullet warding is on both cap and case of the lock but not both on either the faceplate or both on the other side of the keyhole, to allow a key to go in from either side.
As I understand it these keys allow someone to have a key which will work two different masterkeyed suites. For instance the servants have one key for their locks, the owner a different one for his locks and the butler has both on a double sided key so that he can go anywhere-well that’s the way we work it in my house :-)
It wa sto overcome the limitations of differs when masterkeying off bridgewarded locks.

If I understand what you are saying, I agree completely. Those keys have bridge ward cuts and end ward cuts that match in all respects. The bullet wards however are different. They appear to be mirror images for the bullet wards, much like the image here;

on any given lock the keyhole on either side would be exactly the same and therefore only the bit on one end of that key would enter. The bit on the other end is designed for a different lock with a mirror image keyhole. Therefore each end is a single operating key and keys given to one set of people would NOT be double ended. The butler and the Master would have the double ended keys which are then effectively Master keys.

Or, it could be Henry VIII’s key to his mistresses bedroom, which according to all I have read was the first Master Keyed warded lock. Seems it would have been done with such a key.
BBE.

[unknown]

oldbiscuit

Oh henry🙁:

Chris Belcher

Ah, Tom, the bit would only break if you were doing it🙁giggle):.
The bullet ward on that key is only about ¼ of the bit thickness. so two such wards would leave ½ the thickness , not much thinner than the bottom of the taper.