Key Hunting

Reba729

:8):Hi Folks,

I’m looking for a key to open my Star Lock Works lever brass crab style padlock. Invented by Louis Hillebrand and patented in March, 1870. Patent # 100402. I know what it looks like as I have a copy of the patent submission. I saw a key on-line that is supposed to open it and it looks a little different than the original. Both keys are double bitted. The original, starting from the bottom of the key and going up, the bit forms an old fashioned T that has the little downward strokes off each end of the T. The width of the top of the T is the full width of a normal key blank. A little above that there is a shorter - . Just a little below the key head there is a smaller and thinner - . The substitution key is a plain T on the bottom with a little bump on the very bottom. Then a small distance above the top of the T the cut slants outward to the full width of the key blank. I think the overall length of the original key was about 1 ⅜ inches long. It wouldn’t matter the length of the key as long as the dimensions from the bottom up are correct. If anyone has seen anything like this or know anyone who has Star Lock Works padlock keys of this era please let me know. Thanks for your help. Reba729

Dean Nickel

IMPROVEMENT IN PADLOCKS - Google Patent Search
Ok, I would say that if you were measure the key hole, width and hight plus the size of the post hole where the key pivots in. Almost any locksmith should be able to order a blank. There is a specialty key blank provider in FL that they can order from as this place will only sell to locksmiths. If I knew what size the blank needed to be I could give you a blank number to ask for.

Reba729

:8):Hi again, I have the right size blank but don’t know if locksmith can cut key by looking at the picture I have of the original key shown on the patent submission without making an impression. I got my dremel tool out and am trying to copy the key but haven’t been successful with my first try. Close but not close enough. Think I went to high on one of the cuts. Will give it another try. I love challenges!! I’m a real do it your selfer. Reba729

oldbiscuit

Reba, The odds that the picture of the key cut on the patent site and your lock being the same cut are very slim at best. Your best bet would be to take your key blank and impression it against the levers in the lock. I’ve got one of these locks in my collection with the origional key that has lots of wear on it. If you don’t hold your mouth just right when turning the key it won’t open.So what I’m saying is, even if you have the right cut it has to be pretty darn close to perfect to make it work right. Good luck ,Mark🙁hi):

Reba729

:8):Hi Oldbiscuit
Thought for sure with a picture of the original key designed by the inventor that it would open it. I had a key that opened it but my mother lost it. It was different than the two I described. The three ends of the cross on the bottom of mine all came to a point. Something tells me these locks weren’t very safe with so many different key designs that could open them. Know what you mean about the mouth thing, when I had my key wrinkled my nose a lot and held my breath. I’ve seen some pictures of my lock and it shows something in the hole at the bottom. Looks like a knob with a little fat tail. Do you know what this is for? Thanks so much for your comeback. Reba729

amazing01

The lock you are talking about (the Crab) has both levers and wards in them so the key in the picture will most likely not fit yours. Any Locksmith worth his salt can make this key if a suitable blank can be obtained. I did one not long back and finding a blank that would work was the biggest challenge. The Crab is a really neat lock and its even cooler with a working key; good luck with it!

Cheers, Mike D_C/

Reba729

Hi Amazing,
What I don’t understand is why a key shown on the original patent submission wouldn’t open the lock? I’m new at this and don’t know what the term ward means. Could you educate me? Thanks Reba 729

oldbiscuit

Reba, if all the crab locks used the same key, how secure would that have been? Here’s a few pics of my lock and key.

Dean Nickel

Hey mark,

That looks like it might be like an Abloy lock in the way the key was cut! Is that true? If that is true then that would be a fun lock to make a key for even if you are a locksmith. Ok fun for me. :8):

Reba729

Hi All,
Biscuit, Yup, that’s my lock. Same date too. What a beautiful key. Do you think it’s the original? I bought a cheap bag of keys on e-bay and found a key that opens it. I doused the lock with WD-40 first as it hadn’t been opened in decades. I tried the key when I first got them but none would open it. After WD-40 pop it went. The key just has a plain T bit on it. Much like the one my Mom lost, but I like yours better. I found a Roman numeral X on the pivot hole side of the shackle once it was open. Does yours have something there too? I think there are some letters or numbers inside of the hole where the shackle closes but there is a lot of black stuff in there. Cleaned some of it off with Acetone but fumes got to me before I could get it all out. Looked like a big S and some numbers. Have you found anything like that in yours? This has turned out to be much more of an interesting journey than I ever expected. Marvin@thisoldtrunk told me C. Liebrick owned the company since the 1930’s and about 1869 Liebrick, Hillebrand, and Wolf were together until Liebrick’s death in 1870. Wolf took over after Hillebrand either left the company or died on April 2, 1912. Thanks for all the help everyone has given me. Reba729

amazing01

A ward is an obstruction inside of a lock to block an un-cut key blank/or the wrong key from turning. A lever is a type of lock tumbler that gets lifted by the flag of the key, as it rotates, lifting it to the right height and allowing the bolt to move as the key finishes it’s rotation. The wrong key will either lift one or more of the levers too high or not high enough causing the bolt to stay in place and stops the rotation of said key (keeping the lock closed).

It is very hard to explain this clearly without a visual aid. You really need to see a cut-away lock and watch it open and close in order to understand. Basicly, little differences in the cuts on the key change things quite a bit inside of the lock. They put different levers and different wards inside of locks so that one key doesn’t open everyone else’s lock and their keys won’t open yours. I hope that explains it a little.

Cheers, Mike D_C/