Sargent & Greenleaf 6810

Cepasaccus

Hi, I do have here this S&G 6810, which I refurbished. It had a heavily rusted steel case and so I thought I can’t do wrong. Perhaps someone can date this lock for me? Serial is 1306. The wheels do not have a movable fly and the dial has 50 numbers and the newest patent date of 1877. The company name is just Sargent & Greenleaf. Thanks

PS: What is the purpose of this brass spring? Should it hold the locking bolt to not accidentally fall down?

wylk

This might not help much, but the 6810 does not appear in a 1907 catalog (but they might still have been making it). It does appear in a 1927 catalog:

It may have been known as the No. 5 prior to 1900:

Your dial doesn’t sound like an original based on the patent dates and numbers.

The serial number may not be an actual serial number. Some manufacturers only used the last few digits of the actual s/n or they used a separate small number so an assembler or repairman won’t get parts from one unit mixed up with another on the bench. So there may have been several marked 1306 throughout history.

Cepasaccus

Then it is probably a No. 5. I did know only the 1927 catalog, where it is a 6810.

The dial has the same serial as the lock. So I am sure it is the original dial for that lock. Because of https://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/780-Pre-1900-Sargent-amp-Greenleaf-catalogue?p=3453#post3453 it should be from no later than 1896.

T Davison

The dial should 100#. The wheels in your lock are key change.

The patent date on the S&G dial should be May 22, 1906. The dial should have a STAR instead of a line to dial the combo to. I see this lock Barnes cast iron safes. The dial should carry the following patent dates: Sept 18, 1860, Jan9, 1866, Aug28, 1866 July 14, 1866 EX7 years, July14 1871. There should be a blank zone on the dial; this is the” forbidden zone.”

hope this helps Tim

Cepasaccus wrote
Hi, I do have here this S&G 6810, which I refurbished. It had a heavily rusted steel case and so I thought I can’t do wrong. Perhaps someone can date this lock for me? Serial is 1306. The wheels do not have a movable fly and the dial has 50 numbers and the newest patent date of 1877. The company name is just Sargent & Greenleaf. Thanks

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21696[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]21697[/ATTACH]

PS: What is the purpose of this brass spring? Should it hold the locking bolt to not accidentally fall down?

[unknown]

wylk

Cepasaccus, could you post a picture of the dial?

The restoration looks quite nice. Does it operate well?

Cepasaccus

Tim,

that is the dial. It has 50 numbers, a blank zone and a STAR. Besides the 50 numbers it looks exactly like the dials shown in the 1890s catalog here in this forum (and btw. the wheels in that catalog are also key change). The dial ring is stamped 1306. So I am pretty sure that the dial ring is the genuine dial ring installed with the lock. The dial itself does not have a number. So it might be that it is not the genuine dial, although dial ring and dial fit perfectly together and have the same color and wear.

I assume with May 22, 1906 they refer to patent US821548. As you can seen on my second photo above the lock does not use movable flies but are driven by fixed pins on both sides. So this lock does use nothing from this patent, which patents the movable flies called “suitable driving-flies mounted directly on said hub”. It is certainly possible that S&G continued selling locks without movable flies combined with dials referring to the movable-fly patent. Can you explain why you think that S&G did exactly that and that this is a lock from this period?

Cepasaccus

wylk wrote
Cepasaccus, could you post a picture of the dial?

Did that while you wrote your posting.

wylk wrote
The restoration looks quite nice. Does it operate well?

Thanks. The case was heavily rusted and it really did not make sense to keep it as it is. It was sand blasted, painted with matte car paint and finished with organic linseed oil. I don’t have much experience with painting, but I thought that the car paint should stick on a freshly sand blasted rough surface. The wheels have been cleaned in an ultra sonic cleaner, the lever and bolt slightly polished with a cotton cloth and then everything slightly oiled. As far as I can see everything works fine, but I did not yet make a change key and try changing the combination.

The dial is a bit of a problem. It is not in a condition that it has to be restored, but it is also not in a nice condition and its condition does not fit anymore to the shiny lock body. So it has to be restored somehow too, which is not that easy because of the many scratches and deep dents and faint patent imprints.

[unknown] [unknown]

wylk

Cepasaccus wrote
I did not yet make a change key and try changing the combination.

You might be able to find a change key on eBay or elsewhere. I don’t know enough about these older locks but you might be able to adapt a contemporary change key. This is what is shown in the 1907 catalog (the description is for a 4-wheel lock so the picture probably is of a 4-wheel change key):

Do you have the back cover for the lock?

[unknown]

Cepasaccus

I think I have seen such a change key some weeks back on ebay and it was not cheap.

I do have the cover, yes. All the change keys of approximately proper size are a tiny bit to long and can’t be turned.

T Davison

The S&G safe lock formerly #5 subsequently became the C66 that changed into the 6810. All the locks fall under the dials patent dates as I stated in the above post.
C-62 lock was a 4 wheels rotary bolt.
C-64 lock was a 4 wheel slide bolt.
C-66 lock was a 3 wheel rotary bolt.
C-68 lock was a 3 wheel slide bolt.
All these locks fall under the dial patent date. Hope this helps . Tim

Cepasaccus

Tim, thank you. This is very valuable information. Is it possible to make a connection with my lock?

The dial, which came with my lock has as the latest patent date 1871. That is the lower boundary. The upper boundary is the production end. Perhaps 1940s? I do not see anything in this lock, which indicates that it is from 1906 or later . The dial matches and it does not contain anything from the 1906 patent. But you wrote that the dial should have the 1906 patent date. So there apparently is something in this lock, which tells you, that it is from 1906 or later. Is this a feeling or can you point out why you think it is from later than 1906?

safeman

Cepasaccus wrote
Hi,

PS: What is the purpose of this brass spring? Should it hold the locking bolt to not accidentally fall down?

The converse perhaps - to assist gravity for a lazy lever?

[unknown]