George Price's Ne Plus Ultra Safe Lock

Timbo

I have just managed to get a lovely George Price’s Ne Plus Ultra safe lock with original key from a safe that I have just opened. On opening the cover. the top lever is stamped 18772. The number 2 seems to be out of line with the rest. Would this be the month number and the 1877 being the year. Any info would be great.
Tim

Timbo

I have just discovered that the stamping on the lever is probably not the date stamp. However, the stamping must mean something !!
Does anyone have knowledge or any idea’s of George Price’s lever / lock stamping reasoning ?

Paul Prescott

It’s exactly what it appears to be - A sequential serial number. No records exist however for date it etc from that number.

Timbo

Thanks for the info Oldlock.
I guess that when these safe’s were manufactured, there probably must have been a log to state what locks were fitted in which safe’s. These could then have been linked to the customers who bought them. What makes me think this is, I have read that George Price offered an upgrade service for customers safe’s that had been fitted with an earlier designed lock from previous patents. He could only have done this if he had kept records of the locks fitted to which safe’s and who bougtht them.
🙁smirk):
I guess we will never know unless the lost record books turn up one day.
Tim

Syd Waterman

Hi Timbo
You stated in your initial posting “from a safe that I have just opened”.
Did you notice any marking as to the Model type? Sometimes references to the quality of the safe can help with dating. The lock that you removed from the safe was originally patented in 1860 and was still being fitted to safes in 1900. Early examples of this Lock use Comb Springing,later examples like yours have individual lever springs.
Hope this helps.
Patent.

Timbo

Thanks patent
The safe that the lock came from had been painted white inside and out.
There were no visable markings that I could see to make an identification of model or type. I don’t know if the boltwork would give a clue but there were three bolts on opening side and three bolts on hinge side. On unlocking the boltwork, all the bolts retracted into the casework.
The safe was 4ft hinge and about 3ft wide. What I need really is an original catalogue to ID it, but theres no chance of that !!!

However, it’s still a nice lock to have in my collection.
Tim

safeman

Here’s a couple of sections from the Patent Drawing of 1860.

Timbo

Hi Safeman, many thanks for posting the drawings.
I don’t know where you get this stuff from but I never seem to come across info like this myself.
Thanks again and much appriciated.
Tim

safeman

Timbo wrote
Hi Safeman, many thanks for posting the drawings.
I don’t know where you get this stuff from but I never seem to come across info like this myself.
Thanks again and much appriciated.
Tim

Now that I have a bit more time - here are some extracts from the actual Specification which will put you completely in the picture regarding this lock.

The history of safes is my specialised subject which is why I have accumulated quite a lot of stuff over a lifetime in that field.

Hope this enhances your enjoyment of having the lock.

JM.

[unknown]

Timbo

Thank you once again Safeman, I really appreciate your efforts in finding this info and posting for me and others to share. George Price was my favourite safe maker and I am always excited when I am asked to work on one, as I usually find something that I have’nt seen before. Great stuff.
Tim

KitBear

I was just curious, Is it certain that this IS a Ne Plus Ultra?

The reason I ask is because I once saw a Ne Plus Ultra on another site and it looked quite different, Also, I have one of these locks on My Price Safe and to find out that this is indeed a NPU would make My week.

To think that I’ve been looking out for one and I may have had one all this time 🙁blush):.

Just to note, My safe is the “Price’s Patent First Class Safe” as mentioned in His Treatise page 125, Original Price 🙁smirk): £20.

Lock info:

6 Lever
Narrow Keyway
Anti Pressure Mechanism
Powderproof lever arrangement
Extended keyhole (Nose?)
"Jack-in-the-box proof
Bolt Shield/Cover
Comb Spring

It’s a comforting thought that Price made allowances in the safe design so that even IF a burglar removed the lock from it’s mounting plate, the safe would still be secure, The nose of the keyhole penetrates the safe door to hold the boltwork securely.

Mr Price was certainly a great man indeed.

Paul Prescott

The Ne Plus Ultra ‘concept’ was applied to a number of different pattern locks, plus there were two major design changes. As such locks can look quite different.

KitBear

Thanks Oldlock, I was pretty sure that the other one I saw was the only design as there is little info around to do research on it, That’s why I didn’t know what I had until this thread

May I ask You, Is this the first NPU or one of the later designs and is this the lock that is mentioned as Never been picked or is it one of the later ones also?

Paul Prescott

This is the later, more common pattern. A search on this site should reveal pictures of the earlier locks too.

Timbo

Hi KitBear,
I know that mine is not the early type of NPU but it is still so nice to own one. I would also like to get an earlier type with the comb springs, that would be great but I think that these are even more rare.
By the way, I also have another one which is very similar but not the NPU. It does not have the anti-presure device and would be the earlier improved patent lock.
Tim

KitBear

Timbo wrote
Hi KitBear,
I know that mine is not the early type of NPU but it is still so nice to own one. I would also like to get an earlier type with the comb springs, that would be great but I think that these are even more rare.
By the way, I also have another one which is very similar but not the NPU. It does not have the anti-presure device and would be the earlier improved patent lock.
Tim

Hi Tim, I managed to acquire mine by chance when i got my Price safe, I’ll upload some pics when I next open the back of My safe, As I remember it, It was a comb spring, I had a key made for it when I got the safe when I was about 14 or so, Unfortunately the locksmith didn’t know it either and so remained undiscovered by me of what it was, I feel fortunate to own one, I did see one on flea bay a number of years ago, Not even the seller knew what it was, I thought they would be relatively common, However, As history has taught me, I was wrong, I hope that You find one, They really are a beautiful piece of workmanship, Mine is still in use and since I now know shall remain so.

[unknown]

KitBear

I have just today opened and cleaned the internals of My Price safe and taken a few pictures of the internals and naturally the lock, The patent papers on the previous page clearly shows the internal mechanism of my safe in it’s entirety, Just to note, There is a hardened anti drill plate on the actual door of the safe itself as well as 2 stamps on the rim at the top , One says “STEAD”? and the other is the serial number “3655”.

Note the anti pressure device on the bolt and the gunpowder blowout vents on the last pic as well as the narrow nose of the keyhole.

Just thought i’d share.

Kit Bear 🙁bear):

Timbo

Great pictures KitBear, it’s nice to see the earlier lock to mine with the comb springs. You have a very nice lock there. Could you post a pic of the door front for me as I would like to see the brass I.D. plate if it’s there. I have a couple of George price plates and always interested in looking at ones that I don’t have if different to mine if ever I find them.
Thanks again for sharing you pictures
Tim

safeman

KitBear wrote
I have just today opened and cleaned the internals of My Price safe and taken a few pictures of the internals and naturally the lock, The patent papers on the previous page clearly shows the internal mechanism of my safe in it’s entirety, Just to note, There is a hardened anti drill plate on the actual door of the safe itself as well as 2 stamps on the rim at the top , One says “STEAD”? and the other is the serial number “3655”.

Note the anti pressure device on the bolt and the gunpowder blowout vents on the last pic as well as the narrow nose of the keyhole.

Just thought i’d share.

Kit Bear 🙁bear):

I don’t know if this will help but the stampings on the top of the door should refer to the model i.e. 201D at the hinge end, and the serial number i.e. 3459 at the other end as shown in the attachment. Also shown are the words ’Price’s Patent Case Hardened Door’ as mentioned in the attached section from Price’s Treatise on Gunpowder-Proof Locks.

This particular door is of the 1″ laminae construction, i.e. case hardened ⅛″ front and 3/16″ rear plates with 11/16″ packing bars between, which Price offered as an alternative to a solid door ⅝″ thick. (At the time the thicker doors were preferred as giving greater resistance to the insertion of crowbars during wedging).

The lock on this safe is #531 and was one of the first locks to be used in a locking-down function. The split cap lock on your safe was a slightly smaller version with a cast iron case.

[unknown]

safeman

With the recent interest in Price safes (George that is, not Cyrus), it occurred to me that perhaps one of the most unusual designs, the Twentieth Century Model, is not all that widely known.
It was patented, No.6367, on March 24th1899 shortly after George’s death by A.E Price and R. Gough.
The locking mechanism is housed in the bulkhead of the body, the door being plain and solid. The vertical sliding dovetailed bolt-work falls out of engagement on the unlocking of the key lock which in turn is spring loaded to lock automatically when the bolt-work engages.
Somebody out there may have better pictures with the door open.