Interesting US safelock

Tom Gordon

This is off an old US safe-anyone any ideas which make?

Tom Gordon

external piccie

Tom Gordon

With a key mechanism like this, someone must know?!

Brian Morland MLA Hon

Well Tom it looks like a Bramah, 7 sliders to the bit, but is it a genuine one or a copy. The key is not original, does it have cuts in it? The body certainly looks American (cast iron). Perhaps the cylinders were sold to the lock/safemaker. How do you know the safe is American? Is it the wheels…

Tom Gordon

I guessed that it was american from the design, the wheels and the clue that the owner is in America

Brian Morland MLA Hon

It seems that several lockmakers in the US made Bramah style locks, including Eagle, Russell & Irwin and Linus Yale Jr, whose patent was taken out after his death by the administrator of his estate – US patent 95,865 dated October 12, 1869. Will keep digging… Unless someone else gets there first!

Doug MacQueen

The safe is a Jos. L. Hall fire safe of Cincinatti, Ohio. There is a similar safe here in Cleveland also sporting that keylock on the inner door although in this case the keylock has been drilled down the keyhole. Hall usually used their own locks so it is unknown who the made that keylock. I believe they were also used on very early Diebold Bahmann safes too. Doug

Tom Gordon

Many thanks Doug

matty

Hi,
Thanks for posting that! It seemed so crazy when Doug said it had already been posted.

I have been learning a little about safe history thus far! When I first got this thing, I figured, post a pic and find out what year make and model it is, simple? It’s all the name sharing that went on during that time that had me confused…

Another man I spoke with, asked me if it might be a reproduction, so I’ll try to post some more pics.

The only markings I can see are the four center punch marks, and the numeral 2 on the back side of the key flap?

Really appreciate if anyone can say if it’s a repo, original Brahma, or a copy?

(pics of safe are over on “antique safes and vaults” on this forum, “please help I.D. this safe”)

Thanks so much,
Matt.

matty

Here are a couple pics of one of the sliders. Another shot of the back of the lock, and underside of bolt. Thanks

Pics of newer Brahma Bramah Locks

matty

I received this message from Bramah Lock,

The lock looks like a copy of Bramah, made probably between 1814 – 51.
We can’t see any stamping on the lock, that’s why we think it’s not genuine.
Best regards

drcwks

Tom Gordon wrote
This is off an old US safe-anyone any ideas which make?

Had these photos available…thought I would post. This BRAMAH lock came from a Burke&Barnes Safe. I rescued the lock from the broken safe door. It had been outside for years…broken like it was. A very skilled lock collector reconditioned it for me and made a key. Burke & Barnes Started in 1849 from what I found on the internet.

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Paul Prescott

As you have discovered Bramah themselves did not make your lock, indeed I would go so far as to say I doubt they ever produced a lock with a cast iron body like that.

The Bramah mechanism was copied widely in Europe and in the US by Yale & Mosler and it seems others.

Paul

drcwks

oldlock wrote
As you have discovered Bramah themselves did not make your lock, indeed I would go so far as to say I doubt they ever produced a lock with a cast iron body like that.

The Bramah mechanism was copied widely in Europe and in the US by Yale & Mosler and it seems others.

Paul

Thanks for the info Paul… I get it now.

I wonder how foreign design patents worked back then? I guess I just assumed an American Lock company couldn’t copy a lock design from another country unless I guess the patent had expired.

Obviously early American Safes had the English design influence not only in the locks but the early construction of the door hinges where the door did not come off.

Also the rectangular locking bolts soon became round.
Dean

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